Dizzy, Disoriented Driver

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DriftRacer14
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Dizzy, Disoriented Driver

Postby DriftRacer14 » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:38 pm

I can't believe no one's made a thread about this, but what does the person in the cockpit of these machines actually go through when the car flips over? Surely they don't remain sitting 'upright'; being able to only see the ground from under your vehicle would be disorienting and nauseating as hell.

I thought for a time that maybe the interior of the cockpit was similar to a toy I had ages ago. The driver is in a cockpit with a weight on the bottom that rotates perpendicular to the vehicle. This would always orient the driver vertically in relation to gravity, except maybe in high speed turns.

Then I realized that this would cause issues when it came to driving upside down or sideways. The driver would be, for all intents and purposes, again stuck with a ground only view or worse yet, staring at part of the vehicle. Something more complex would need to be in place to orient the driver with respect to both gravity and the surface said driver is driving on.

I figure that perhaps the vehicle has proximity sensors in/on the 'top' and 'bottom', or perhaps pressure sensors near the axles, which interact with gyroscopes in the cockpit so the driver is always oriented with respect to the surface s/he is driving on. When the vehicle catches air, the vehicle takes into account which side is arguably the 'top' in relation to gravity and orients the driver so s/he is facing the proper direction when s/he touches down.

As for when the vehicle bounces around, a 'lethal centrifuge' as I remember someone calling it at some point somewhere in this forum, no doubt an onboard computer spins the cockpit along the aforementioned axis perpendicular to the vehicle in a way that cancels out the shock as best it can, while also keeping the driver from getting dizzy/nauseated.

I'd like to hear others' theories as to just what happens in the cockpit to prevent 'filling the vase' as I'm told the astronauts say.

Of course this is mostly theory, but perhaps the best theory, or theories, could be woven into GRIP Lore by the time the final version comes...? With an obvious hat tip to those who came up with said 'best theories', maybe defunct companies with names akin to the forum user who posted it, or perhaps the CEOs of said companies would be named similarly...? ;)
OK, tell it to me straight... in Rollcage Stage II for the PS1... was Winter Wonderland II even possible to Gold Medal...? :cry:

Retreating is Running Away. Falling Back, however, is simply Advancing in a Different Direction.

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Queadah
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Re: Dizzy, Disoriented Driver

Postby Queadah » Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:35 pm

You said it all,
I geeked a lot about this in my mind and imo, cockpits are entirely gyroscopic:

Image

Why does it make more sense than only using gravity?
  • Because chances are GRIP cars are designed to sustain space harshness/travel to some degree
  • Indeed, they are basically giant tank rockets on wheel
  • ...and since there's no up and down in space, I think racers can actually orient their cockpit at will
  • ...or spin it fast enough with a slight axis offset so as to generate an artificial gravity
Hence the gyroscope theory.
On the last point, it's ok if the cockpit spins super fast in space since:
  • there are barely any windshields to begin with
  • their visual is most probably on an almost fully spherical 360°x360° screen (our ingame HUD)
  • basically that screen is the inner wall of the spherical gyro cockpit
  • input comes from a myriad of small cameras with tons of redundancy and backups on the hull
  • this way, racers remain protected of outside harm (a windshield would be too fragile)
Image

As for shock absorbing, I agree with others that we're dealing partly with an hydrogen-enriched liquid (breathable) thick enough to absorb most of the violence of acceleration increase/decrease, e.g. Evangelion's EVA:
Image

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Re: Dizzy, Disoriented Driver

Postby DriftRacer14 » Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:58 am

Queadah wrote:[*] their visual is most probably on an almost fully spherical 360°x360° screen (our ingame HUD)


The cockpit could be almost any shape that can be rotated around one axis symmetrically. Conic, Cylindrical, Hemispherical, Spherical, perhaps a section of a sphere, etc. But the internal display being spherical (assuming there is an internal display. Not bashing on your theory, I just hadn't thought of it lol) would make sense, and I suppose it would be a bit awkward mounting a mostly spherical display inside a non-spherical cockpit.

Queadah wrote:[*]input comes from a myriad of small cameras with tons of redundancy and backups on the hull
[*]this way, racers remain protected of outside harm (a windshield would be too fragile)


Redundancy would definitely be a must; all the shock of a standard race, or series of races, is bound to knock out at least one camera eventually, unless we go with the cliche of 'future glass', but if we did this then the windshield could be made of this too, rendering the spherical display moot, so let's avoid that little issue...

Queadah wrote:As for shock absorbing, I agree with others that we're dealing partly with an hydrogen-enriched liquid (breathable) thick enough to absorb most of the violence of acceleration increase/decrease...


I hadn't thought of that, but now that you mention it, I do remember hearing about such substances. Driver'd have to be strapped in pretty good; even if the gel stays gel under intense conditions, its inertia would make irritating and somewhat distracting mini currents within the cockpit potentially strong enough to tear a driver's hands off the wheel/joystick/what have you, unless the gel's just that good.

It's fun to think of stuff like this XD :geek:
OK, tell it to me straight... in Rollcage Stage II for the PS1... was Winter Wonderland II even possible to Gold Medal...? :cry:

Retreating is Running Away. Falling Back, however, is simply Advancing in a Different Direction.

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Re: Dizzy, Disoriented Driver

Postby Sagacity » Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:54 am

I always just assumed they wore VR headsets and were strapped in like a jet fighter.

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Re: Dizzy, Disoriented Driver

Postby Queadah » Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:25 am

Sagacity wrote:I always just assumed they wore VR headsets and were strapped in like a jet fighter.

+1 VR headset would do, way less hassle you're right :) Cockpit's still a xyz gyro sphere full of goo :P

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Re: Dizzy, Disoriented Driver

Postby Broscar » Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:04 am

Devs think they're in the cockpits.
Personally, I think Rollcage/GRIP cars are just giant RC tanks 'cause of the G-forces involved :p

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Re: Dizzy, Disoriented Driver

Postby Sagacity » Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:32 pm

Broscar wrote:Devs think they're in the cockpits.
Personally, I think Rollcage/GRIP cars are just giant RC tanks 'cause of the G-forces involved :p


Considering their size it'd be completely plausible to contain in the vehicles G-force compensating devices. The simplest of which could be contain the cockpit within an encasement of spring or accordion-like shock absorbers. This way the g-forces are applied not to the cockpit itself, but these dampeners.

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Re: Dizzy, Disoriented Driver

Postby MicrowaveYourHamster » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:56 am

Right, there are no drivers in the rigs, at least they are not human. The idea of the cars being those giant RC tanks is really appealing. If a civilization has the energy and tech needed to transport (teleport?) the rigs between planets and star systems they should have equally developed miniaturization and remote control capabilities. This applies if the conglomerate hosting the races are a kind of sentimental multi-dimensional beings who use the racing as a fun reminder of the old, less advanced eras.

If the drivers were placed in the rigs, then I would assume a more barbaric nature of the beings. With military honor, gladiators and death as core values in their culture.

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Re: Dizzy, Disoriented Driver

Postby FrostyPL » Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:38 pm

MicrowaveYourHamster wrote:Right, there are no drivers in the rigs, at least they are not human. The idea of the cars being those giant RC tanks is really appealing. If a civilization has the energy and tech needed to transport (teleport?) the rigs between planets and star systems they should have equally developed miniaturization and remote control capabilities. This applies if the conglomerate hosting the races are a kind of sentimental multi-dimensional beings who use the racing as a fun reminder of the old, less advanced eras.

If the drivers were placed in the rigs, then I would assume a more barbaric nature of the beings. With military honor, gladiators and death as core values in their culture.


It's confirmed that there are alive drivers in rigs, with it devs can create really dark and interesting career and lore in overall.

That's why I want these: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3883

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DriftRacer14
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Re: Dizzy, Disoriented Driver

Postby DriftRacer14 » Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:35 pm

I'm still going with my Cylindrical Cockpit idea and a single axis of rotation, maybe a swiveling chair, too. My reasoning is that the machines should be as simple as possible when and where possible so they're easier to maintain, and having a gyroscopic, spherical cockpit would be a lot more complex than just having a cylindrical one that only goes about one axis. There's no reason for all the extra rotation in a spherical cockpit, because the drivers would still need to face primarily forward anyway. Not to mention connecting everything up between the cockpit and the rest of the vehicle would be a nightmare without a common, constant connection point or two. I just don't see a way to run wires (and/or mechanical linkages) between the cockpit and the rest of the car without the cockpit's rotation destroying them without one. At least with a cylinder you could make a ring of conductive material that buffets up against metal contacts at either end or something. A sphere on the other hand, any point of the sphere could be anywhere at any time; any connecting wires would get sheared off, and any contact points would constantly switch between being shorted, not connecting and working okay. It couldn't be wireless because the racers would constantly be jamming the signal between the cockpit and the vehicle (And yes I know how Bluetooth works with the constantly changing channels and whatnot, but someone's going to hack it somewhere along the line).
Sure a serial signal could work with one large connecting point covering the entire sphere, but all the cameras and the weapon interface systems would constantly be trying to share that digital signal. There could be multiple signals running across this contact point on different frequencies, I suppose, but again all a racer would need to do is hone in on a target opponent's signal frequency of choice (Weapons, steering, acceleration, etc.) then jam that signal, although I guess this could explain the EMP...

Long story short I still say cylindrical cockpit with monitors on the front, back, and sides, a swiveling chair, and a counterweight at the top of said cockpit to keep it balanced for simplicity's sake.

GRIP_CylindricalCockpit.png
GRIP_CylindricalCockpit.png (58.65 KiB) Viewed 5538 times

Odd thing is, I thought I already uploaded this once...
OK, tell it to me straight... in Rollcage Stage II for the PS1... was Winter Wonderland II even possible to Gold Medal...? :cry:

Retreating is Running Away. Falling Back, however, is simply Advancing in a Different Direction.

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MicrowaveYourHamster
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Re: Dizzy, Disoriented Driver

Postby MicrowaveYourHamster » Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:10 am

And how about a sphere or whatever shape the container would have is filled with liquid that dampens the excessive g-force? Think about something less about metal and turning parts, and more about bio-mechanical contraption.

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Queadah
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Re: Dizzy, Disoriented Driver

Postby Queadah » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:11 am

Mechanical must be for the cockpit to stay "oriented" (gyroscopically), but for the liquid indeed...
Queadah wrote:As for shock absorbing, I agree with others that we're dealing partly with an hydrogen-enriched liquid (breathable) thick enough to absorb most of the violence of acceleration increase/decrease, e.g. Evangelion's EVA:
Image

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Re: Dizzy, Disoriented Driver

Postby agcue » Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:39 am

the answer to your question.... reasons :)


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