Content - how much do we need?

Talk about anything you want regarding GRIP's gameplay mechanics or features (that can't be covered in other forums)
agcue
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Content - how much do we need?

Postby agcue » Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:18 am

I wanted to get the community talking about this topic again because I know this is the area of focus for the teem currently - content! How much content is enough?

My thought are that less but very polished content early is the way to go (like overwatch, arms, splatoon...) followed by strong support through the tail end of the games life cycle and before the inevitable (and hopeful) focus on a fully fledged sequel - GRIP STAGE 2!!!

For the initial push - to get GRIP ready for a digital release on PC and PS4 my feeling is that;
- the 4 planets in the game cover the initial launch.
- I would hope to see 4 tracks per planet.
- 4 racing teams
- basic league mode (like RC1)
- x Scramble maps
- only the current battle maps will do

For me (if fully polished and perfect) this would make a digital copy of GRIP fantastic value.

Following this, the release of a fifth planet can form the first DLC;
- 3-4 new tracks on this planet
- and the remaining battle maps can make an appearance (possibly 1 battle map per planet) - this may not need to be expanded if the popularity of the mode isn't there.

For the second DLC;
- a few new tracks (filling in the gaps and fleshing out the content) and,
- a new race team.

For the third DLC;
- Single player campaign/story mode
- a new racing team
- and the inclusion of any community (and dev teams) final demands :)

Following this can be a game of the year or disk release of the game.

So these are my thoughts - what are yours? ...When will there be enough content in the game and when can Chris and the team switch gears to polish mode... Damn I needs to see me some polish!!

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Re: Content - how much do we need?

Postby Broscar » Sun Jun 11, 2017 2:44 pm

The sooner the game is feature complete, as in technically it's as good as finished, I'd say the game is ready to get out of early access.
Adding tracks and revamping them after that, is a good way to keep a community alive and kicking. A lot of communities for games thrive in part because a game is frequently updated (Minecraft, Overwatch, Rocket League immediately spring to mind). It kicks up discussion and will have players coming back to the game time after time to check out the new stuff.

Personally I'd even be fine with a release consisting of just the current tracks, as long as the game is feature complete and aforementioned update workflow is taken up.

If I were to think of content in a complete game 'oldschool' style, I'd say 8 tracks minimum (excluding reverse versions).

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Re: Content - how much do we need?

Postby Ryu Makkuro » Sun Jun 11, 2017 2:56 pm

For me there should be some form of single player career mode. Other than that... one maybe two more tracks and few more pickups to finally get it to a point where you can balance it properly.

But that's just content, the most important part is getting the physics right and after that the cars performance (not just balance between cars but their performance in general) and the aforementioned pickups balance. With those done, the game would be "Gold" for me, aka complete, ready for launch and a swarm of DLC xD
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Re: Content - how much do we need?

Postby potterman28wxcv » Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:55 pm

In my opinion, GRIP already has enough content to get going. 7 tracks + 1 bonus (speedbowl), + the reverse versions.. It already makes for a lot of fun. Heck, the first Wipeout had less tracks than that!

What is lacking right now is gameplay. Driving wise it's good now - there's no more random jumps on the road. But in terms of pure gameplay, it's really lacking.

There's always every race that ends in an endless chase to meet the leader, the pack is way too spread out. Visuals aside (i'm really talking of pure gameplay), weapons need rebalancing and fleshing out (some of them are quite boring to use right now), there needs to be more variety as well.

Since the addition of the jump, maybe existing tracks could use a bit of rework too, so that jump actually allows players to access other racing lanes. Existing tracks also need to have more stuff in them, to kill the "press forward no challenge" feeling most of them have.

Last but not least, some additional multiplayer functions - being able to play a single player race while waiting, lobby browser, proper spectator mode..

If all these points are tackled, imo GRIP is ready to be released. Even if there's only a handful of tracks, as long as people have fun playing it in Single Player and in multiplayer, it should be a good indie game.

The problem with creating new tracks is that it takes a lot of time to create new assets and all - time that could be spent elsewhere.

Copyright Broscar for most of the stuff I just wrote :P
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Re: Content - how much do we need?

Postby Queadah » Sun Jun 11, 2017 5:34 pm

I agree with you agcue.

  • 3 or 4 tracks per planet
  • 4 racing teams (even though I'd be fine with the current 3. 3 times 3 car class makes for 9 cars, which is a decent roster imo)
  • A league mode indeed, with high stakes, bravura and silly missions (I just remembered the 1999 "Driver" video game - that car game was great btw)
  • Slightly refined Carkour maps to entice people to play them (linked to some sort of rewards/story/progression?)
  • At least one arena map from Orbital Prime
  • A CTF mode
  • The expansion of the lore through the creation of various more assets

Importantly, I'd argue game mechanics should be more plentiful/solidified (it's part of content too). Depending on CE's call ofc, I'm naming a few to give examples, but they are already known:
Spoiler: show
  • destructible (a big thing imo)
  • progression/perks (collecting salvage to build parts? Collecting rewards during League?)
  • the shooting backwards?
  • that shield would flip?
  • weapon stacking?
  • targets to hit to trigger effects (can't recall who suggested that in another thread)
    e.g. in arena, a switch to invert gravity; on tracks, levers to activate traps/alternate pathing

Polishing only then in updates for the fine tuning, sexier stuff and adjustments on UI and presentation maybe.

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Re: Content - how much do we need?

Postby potterman28wxcv » Sun Jun 11, 2017 6:33 pm

Queadah wrote:Importantly, I'd argue game mechanics should be more plentiful/solidified (it's part of content too). Depending on CE's call ofc, I'm naming a few to give examples, but they are already known:
Spoiler: show
  • destructible (a big thing imo)
  • progression/perks (collecting salvage to build parts? Collecting rewards during League?)
  • the shooting backwards?
  • that shield would flip?
  • weapon stacking?
  • targets to hit to trigger effects (can't recall who suggested that in another thread)
    e.g. in arena, a switch to invert gravity; on tracks, levers to activate traps/alternate pathing

Polishing only then in updates for the fine tuning, sexier stuff and adjustments on UI and presentation maybe.

Destructible is a ton of work for small gameplay changes in the end.

Same stuff for targets to hit. It would be quite some work in my opinion. I'd prefer having them focus on actual weapons
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Re: Content - how much do we need?

Postby Tathendal » Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:57 am

While I do agree with most of you guys points above, I would like to quote an old saying from the jungle (and many examples pretty much failed sale-wise because of bad timing of launch)

You only get one launch.

Think of reviews, press, etc. I say push it hard time at launch. There is no rush to get the game "out". Some tracks and cars can join afterwards in DLC (it's true that this will keep people coming back and interested in the game as Broscar stated), but IMO all features and game mechanics need to be there alongside with the shiny ol' polish. (OFC they can be tweaked if needed afterwards.)

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Re: Content - how much do we need?

Postby HikikomoriGamer » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:39 pm

I prefer the old school way of things where devs think hard on what they want their game to be then they release it fully and focus on sequels! But my opinions are usually stupid for most of ppl so yeah I was just making it clear here what I would like the game to be :(

But GRIP is a simple racing game without story so I can kind of accept the constant changes in the game if they do it right!

I would love to see Chris talking about it but I guess the team will go into the mainstream route that would be release the game, update more content DLC later as everyone is doing so I will agree with what Tathendal said: You only get one launch!

Really want this game to succeed but if the initial content is not good enough cause the promise of future content will be better ppl will just skip the game! Just try to launch the game as a complete product as possible. Think it like a final fantasy one shot thing where if you don't do it right you lose everything! game over! So no rush guys :)

About how much content I want is something like this: For me I prefer more tracks than cars. If I had only 4 cars with different handling and like 10 really diverse tracks it would be great. I would love if you could make every car handles in a different way so for example the single player campaign with different cars would be like playing a different game but I really don't know if it's possible as I'm not a dev and really know sh*t about cars handling.

Also I would love a rich career mode with story and stuff but if the focus will be release the game and keep changing it till who knows when I would prefer a simple single player mode where you have championships and challenges but no story just a menu. That way when you get a new DLC season in the game with more cars and tracks devs can just add another single player batch of championships and challenges based on that new season.

Something like Wipeout Pulse grid:

http://reviews2go.com/wp-content/upload ... Game-2.jpg

The single player campaign could expand as they add new content and it would not cause interference in the old ones. So in my mind it would work like that: OK I got the game I will now complete the entire single player campaign after that I will be good enough to play online and when I get bored of the game after playing online I will wait for a new DLC season. When the new season is ready I just do the same all over again :)

Also there is modding! Devs could make single player batches of championships and challenges using the best tracks ppl add via Steam workshop! I think this ia a good way to make the game "eternal" :)
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Re: Content - how much do we need?

Postby VooDooQky » Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:58 am

Before launch contentwise, I'd like to see 4tracks per planet, destructible track elements, at least 1 arena track for each planet, with the existing ones being polished and balanced (ye, I'm looking at you, Basin).
+ A decent progression and ranking system, or scoreboard, call it however you like.
+ at least two more pickups

Marketingwise, maybe it would be good to introduce some likeable faces/characters along with a game lore told further.

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Re: Content - how much do we need?

Postby TheOnLY » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:12 am

  • 3 manufacturers with 3 cars each
  • 4 tracks and 1 Arena per planet
  • 2 more pick ups and a well balanced, fun weapon system
  • Single player campaign or league with at least 12 races
  • One other battle game mode

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Re: Content - how much do we need?

Postby Queadah » Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:07 am

^ What Voo and TheOnly said, yeah

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Re: Content - how much do we need?

Postby VooDooQky » Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:08 am

Forgot to add weather effects... silly me.

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Re: Content - how much do we need?

Postby playabot » Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:29 pm

Content wise probably three tracks per planet will work.
Though I would like to see a lot more work put into existing tracks once the roster is bolstered. So get the three or four remaining maps in the game in a functional sense, let the community test them and provide feedback and then go back to the earlier stages and give them a final lick of polish.
For me FIC and Alhatra (reverse) are the only tracks that are 95% complete.
Yuri – I think there are flow issues there and an overabundance of narrow sections.
Wastes – It looks so much better in reverse (perhaps this can become the default) but I like the layout of this track.
Transport – One of my least favourite tracks – relatively boring layout – visually uninteresting – to many insta stop barriers.
Islands – tons of flow issues – very ambitious though and I hope it comes together.
Speed Bowl – near complete for what it is – a bit visually uninteresting – jumps and things scattered on the track appear tacked on.
Sky track – layout is solid – visually uninteresting though – tonally this track is off, it feels more like a scramble level then a track proper. Needs to be more grounded on Orbital Prime. Perhaps ad assets used in Haze once complete.
Haze – great track with visual flair promised so no complaints here!
Acrophobia – I like this track – it may be a bit freaking hard but I’ll let the community correct me there. Has enough to make it feel grounded and is far less barren then Skytrack. Again, some of the jump/direction indicators appear tacked on or place holder.

1 battle map per planet would be great too.

Vehicles
I think, with the Eversor and final Terra vehicle, the roster of cars will be full enough – new teams can be released when Caged is able.

Game Modes are pretty full as is – If all the above is up to scratch i.e. great tracks and cars, multiplayer will be enough to keep the community happy. A league mode in whatever structure makes sense would be fine for single player.

For me that would make GRIP excellent and the devs can build from there in whatever direction makes the most sense financially and for the community. Anything else is gravy :)

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Re: Content - how much do we need?

Postby twisted » Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:06 pm

20 tracks and 15 vehicles is what the team is aiming for I think, which is very promising. I think with the skytracks easier to design and less time consuming, this number could be achievable. I really hope the best as yet to come.
Last edited by twisted on Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Content - how much do we need?

Postby Chris_CE » Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:20 pm

Orbital Prime's modular workflow and ability to put multiple tracks in a single level file will certainly help create tracks quickly.

For instance, we already have at least 3 additional OP track designs finished and now just need environment dressing (buildings, signs, etc). That said, plenty of art assets still need to be drawn by Joe, and brought to 3D by Simen and co.
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Re: Content - how much do we need?

Postby twisted » Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:49 am

Queadah wrote:e.g. in arena, a switch to invert gravity; on tracks, levers to activate traps/alternate pathing


THIS! We need. :o

potterman28wxcv wrote:The problem with creating new tracks is that it takes a lot of time to create new assets and all - time that could be spent elsewhere.


I disagree with that as the amount of tracks is the reason why I keep coming back to the game. Lately, with the inclusion of Abandonned Attol and Acrophobia, I'm obssesed with the game, I can't stop playing and want even more! :lol: Those are some of my favorite tracks! :shock:

The new ramp platform in the tunnel of fc outpost is soooo much fun to get and takeoff. Please, please, leave it there as is, it's absolutely pure genious! Same with the 3 new shortcuts in Acrophobia and the jumping walls. The new jump feature really complement well the reverse driving ability and makes the vehicles so much versatile.

I wish GRIP will be a huge success. I agree with all the decisions the team have take until now. Despite some in the community were disagreeing to some features (including me), they kept their ideas with convictions and everything has paid. The game is definitely heading in the right direction!

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Re: Content - how much do we need?

Postby Django » Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:46 am

twisted wrote:
Queadah wrote:e.g. in arena, a switch to invert gravity; on tracks, levers to activate traps/alternate pathing


THIS! We need. :o


Oh yes, invert gravity could work really well and would make use of the driving on both sides feature. But could be hard to create got deathmatch maps that are optimised for this.


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