Is this gonna feel more like RC1 or RC2?

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rutra80
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Is this gonna feel more like RC1 or RC2?

Postby rutra80 » Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:28 pm

I was addicted to Rollcage 1, but Rollcage Stage 2 failed to hook me. I think it was a question of physics and sound & visual fx being not so well picked out. Also the levels were a bit overcomplicated, or maybe rather overdesigned.
Only today I discovered Rollcage Redux and I was amazed, except the replacement of engine sound which you borrowed from Stage 2 - it instantly made the game feel like 30% worse :evil: This game is so good in passing the feeling of power to the player and then you replace the jet-like noise with scooter-like droning :?:
So now I'm a lil worried. Do you, dear developers, realize the differences between Stage 1 and Stage 2? That there are fans of Stage 1 who find Stage 2 not so good? If so, are you going to model GRIP more like RC1 or rather more like RC2?

Also, is it possible to upgrade pledges? For example, if I'm pledging Passenger right now with $5, will I be able to upgrade to, say, Driver with $16?
Just do it the way you did in Rollcage 1

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Re: Is this gonna feel more like RC1 or RC2?

Postby landvaarder » Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:05 am

Okay, let's address the grand problem first:
This game is a SPIRITUAL successor to rollcage.
That means that it won't feel like 1 or 2, but completely it's own thing.

About rollcage being better and people agreeing: there is a whole topic dedicated to that, so feel free to find people who think alike there.
Lastly for the pledges, you need to cancel your payment and pay for the new one entirely, or just buy the more expensive one (the dev's need it).
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Re: Is this gonna feel more like RC1 or RC2?

Postby rutra80 » Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:24 am

landvaarder wrote:Okay, let's address the grand problem first:
This game is a SPIRITUAL successor to rollcage.
That means that it won't feel like 1 or 2, but completely it's own thing.

Of course, but there had to be certain design decisions which resulted in something being this way or another. I just hope that in the development process there will be a general mindset which has more in common with ideals realised in RC1 than RC2. And that the devs know what they did better in RC1 than in RC2 and evolve on it.
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Re: Is this gonna feel more like RC1 or RC2?

Postby potterman28wxcv » Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:59 am

rutra80 wrote:
landvaarder wrote:Okay, let's address the grand problem first:
This game is a SPIRITUAL successor to rollcage.
That means that it won't feel like 1 or 2, but completely it's own thing.

Of course, but there had to be certain design decisions which resulted in something being this way or another. I just hope that in the development process there will be a general mindset which has more in common with ideals realised in RC1 than RC2. And that the devs know what they did better in RC1 than in RC2 and evolve on it.

I can't find codemonkey's quote on it (it's somewhere in the Rollcage group steam forum), but basically, Psygnosis did not get the success they intended to have with Rollcage. They concluded that the game was "too hardcore", and that they should design Rollcage Stage 2 with easiness in mind. Codemonkey said himself that Rollcage Stage 2 is a dumb version of Rollcage.

So, yes, the devs are aware of the differences between the two games. Most importantly, Chris, the lead developer, was part of the Rollcage steam community even before starting developing GRIP. And codemonkey would not have done Rollcage Redux if he was not a fan of Rollcage. He told us that Rollcage was the best game he ever had developed as a game developer.

The crucial point here is that it's not just a random indie dev team making a sequel to an old game. It's a team of Rollcage fans, who have a lot of hours into the game, and who of course know the differences between Rollcage and Rollcage Stage 2. And they are very close to the community, as you can see Chris posting regularly here.
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Re: Is this gonna feel more like RC1 or RC2?

Postby rutra80 » Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:25 am

That's great news to me indeed :)
Take my money (/me is pledging)
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Re: Is this gonna feel more like RC1 or RC2?

Postby Xaotros » Wed Oct 14, 2015 7:40 am

potterman28wxcv wrote:Codemonkey said himself that Rollcage Stage 2 is a dumb version of Rollcage.

I don't think he said it exactly like that xD
It was more like stage 2 is more easier and that makes it better for newcomers to hang on to the game.
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Re: Is this gonna feel more like RC1 or RC2?

Postby StickyBassline » Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:50 am

landvaarder wrote:Lastly for the pledges, you need to cancel your payment and pay for the new one entirely, or just buy the more expensive one (the dev's need it).


Excuse me Landvaarder, I don't want to open up a whole new thread for this, but how do I cancel my purchase? I purchased the Racer pack but I want to upgrade to the splatterpack to give a little additional support :)
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Re: Is this gonna feel more like RC1 or RC2?

Postby landvaarder » Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:02 am

StickyBassline wrote:Excuse me Landvaarder, I don't want to open up a whole new thread for this, but how do I cancel my purchase? I purchased the Racer pack but I want to upgrade to the splatterpack to give a little additional support :)

Don't quote me on this, but from what I recall, you need to mail CagedElement (would help to include your transaction through paypal) that you want them to return your money.

I'm not sure if this works, and in case it doesn't, you can always try PM'ing chris or contact CagedElement with this question.
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Re: Is this gonna feel more like RC1 or RC2?

Postby Yrch » Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:31 am

This is really something that a lot of people (including me) need to get out of their head:
This is NOT Rollcage 3, this is a spiritual successor that takes the basic idea of Rollcage (driving on walls, flippable vehicles, destruction).

And i gotta admit that im more than happy that CE just doesn't "remake" or "reimagine" RC.
as much as i like the tight controls and super grippy cars, im eager to see how well the concept works with a more offroad and drifty focused phys. model and new takes on established ideas like the shield.

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Re: Is this gonna feel more like RC1 or RC2?

Postby Chris_CE » Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:53 pm

rutra80 wrote:Do you, dear developers, realize the differences between Stage 1 and Stage 2? That there are fans of Stage 1 who find Stage 2 not so good? If so, are you going to model GRIP more like RC1 or rather more like RC2?

Also, is it possible to upgrade pledges? For example, if I'm pledging Passenger right now with $5, will I be able to upgrade to, say, Driver with $16?


Well, two members of our very small development team worked on RC1 and RC2, so I think they know the difference :P

I played mostly RC1, and both Rob and Dave agree that it was the better game, physics-wise. After all, Rob made Neo mode in RC1 which is insanely fast and intense.

And yeah, as landvaarder said, you'd have to get a refund then pledge higher. You and Sticky can submit a refund ticket with Paypal if you wish and I'll take care of it. ;)

Yrch wrote:This is really something that a lot of people (including me) need to get out of their head:
This is NOT Rollcage 3, this is a spiritual successor that takes the basic idea of Rollcage (driving on walls, flippable vehicles, destruction).

And i gotta admit that im more than happy that CE just doesn't "remake" or "reimagine" RC.
as much as i like the tight controls and super grippy cars, im eager to see how well the concept works with a more offroad and drifty focused phys. model and new takes on established ideas like the shield.

Yeah, GRIP is going to feel a lot different than Rollcage and I'm a little concerned that we might get hate for it because we're not completely copying the driving model.

First off, we're going for a bit more realism. Second, we want the car to have weight, and feel like a badass tank of a machine. 3rd, it probably won't feel as fast unless the FOV is jacked up to Rollcage proportions (see: up to 140). We'll probably (not guaranteed) have an FOV slider, though.

As for "super grippy cars", it's funny, Rob and I were debating the friction of the current driving model just this morning. It is REALLY hard to strike a balance, simply because the car is going crazy fast, but it still needs to handle well at those speeds. You guys have no idea how tough it's been for Rob to get the car to where it is today. But these things take time and tweaking the physics will continue to take time to perfect. Since we're releasing on early access, don't expect the physics to be awesome right off the bat. It's called early access for a reason.

BTW Yrch, this isn't all directed at you, more of a public announcement piggy backing your comment
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Re: Is this gonna feel more like RC1 or RC2?

Postby landvaarder » Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:26 pm

Chris_CE wrote:Yeah, GRIP is going to feel a lot different than Rollcage and I'm a little concerned that we might get hate for it because we're not completely copying the driving model.

Let's start here:

I think this will be a good thing, since it ISN'T rollcage.
Ofcourse there will be people who get "butthurt" and start complaining like: "you didn't copy the rollcage physics exactly the way they where and now I hate it"

All i can say to those people: change happens and you will need to learn to accept that. Pay respect to the guys that are WILLING to devote a lot of time and resources to resurrect a forgotten (and in my opinion totally over the top and awesome) game in a modern and new way. kudos.

Chris_CE wrote:First off, we're going for a bit more realism. Second, we want the car to have weight, and feel like a badass tank of a machine.

I look forward to the new cars and having to learn a new hardcore game that will challenge me with edge of control gameplay, because i think the heavier feeling will give me an added feeling of speed and power of these cars.

Chris_CE wrote:3rd, it probably won't feel as fast unless the FOV is jacked up to Rollcage proportions (see: up to 140). We'll probably (not guaranteed) have an FOV slider, though.

Well, once it get's implemented, I will certainly play around with that and probably settle it at as high as possible.

Chris_CE wrote:As for "super grippy cars", it's funny, Rob and I were debating the friction of the current driving model just this morning. It is REALLY hard to strike a balance, simply because the car is going crazy fast, but it still needs to handle well at those speeds. You guys have no idea how tough it's been for Rob to get the car to where it is today. But these things take time and tweaking the physics will continue to take time to perfect. Since we're releasing on early access, don't expect the physics to be awesome right off the bat.

Again, looking forward to those heavier cars. And respect to Rob for the programming.
I studied programming so I know a few of the hardships it brings with it. The debugging is horrible if you don't know the origin of the bug...
I will certainly give you guys my feedback about the handling once it gets out and can't wait for the really grippy, lighter cars and giving those a try after what appears to be the tank class car.
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Re: Is this gonna feel more like RC1 or RC2?

Postby potterman28wxcv » Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:30 pm

landvaarder wrote:
Chris_CE wrote:As for "super grippy cars", it's funny, Rob and I were debating the friction of the current driving model just this morning. It is REALLY hard to strike a balance, simply because the car is going crazy fast, but it still needs to handle well at those speeds. You guys have no idea how tough it's been for Rob to get the car to where it is today. But these things take time and tweaking the physics will continue to take time to perfect. Since we're releasing on early access, don't expect the physics to be awesome right off the bat.

Again, looking forward to those heavier cars. And respect to Rob for the programming.
I studied programming so I know a few of the hardships it brings with it. The debugging is horrible if you don't know the origin of the bug...

Except that in this case I guess you're debugging both physics and the code, that you have to put in relation with Unreal Engine's behaviour, and this looks to me to be a lot harder than usual debugging.
On top of that, I'm pretty much sure there must be a little bit of Unreal Engine code studying, to know what happens exactly :P
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Re: Is this gonna feel more like RC1 or RC2?

Postby rutra80 » Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:00 pm

Chris_CE wrote:3rd, it probably won't feel as fast unless the FOV is jacked up to Rollcage proportions (see: up to 140). We'll probably (not guaranteed) have an FOV slider, though.

Hopefully the FOV will be dynamic - the faster you go the wider the FOV.
Also if for some reason you don't give us a FOV slider, please make sure that it's wide enough for 4:3 screens, some of us are still using them.
Just do it the way you did in Rollcage 1

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Re: Is this gonna feel more like RC1 or RC2?

Postby Broscar » Sun Oct 18, 2015 3:15 pm

To be frank, the driving will receive most of the flak, no matter how many hours Rob pour into it before Early Access. It's probably a bitter pill to swallow (spend x amount of your free time, x energy, get countless headaches trying to get it just right and then these guys come in and talk sh*t about it in less than 12 hours since first being introduced to it).

But I trust you guys completely (no offense to Chris, but especially Rob after all he's done for us). If something does genuinely turn out to be just plain wrong (like when back in the Kickstarter trailer the cars seemed to lose all forward momentum when they got hit by an explosion from the side), we'll let you know, but other than that just go with the flow, man. Can't please everyone, y'know, so take every opinion made by a fan with a grain of salt.
I told Rob I didn't like the screen flares back when he added them to Rollcage, but he kept it in and now I've grown fond of it.

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Re: Is this gonna feel more like RC1 or RC2?

Postby Chris_CE » Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:02 pm

That's why we're grateful for you guys, because we know you'll do your absolute best to help us perfect the game. It's not going to be easy, and changes may not come as fast as some people would like, but that doesn't mean we're going to settle for anything less than great. We really want this game to play as best it can

@rutra: Yep, the FOV already gets bigger the faster you go

Broscar wrote:(like when back in the Kickstarter trailer the cars seemed to lose all forward momentum when they got hit by an explosion from the side)

Ha, you guys will never let this go. The car was going like 80 kmph and a missile exploded under it to one side, sending the car flying into a wall in the opposite direction. :P
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