Artificial Intelligence

Talk about anything you want regarding GRIP's gameplay mechanics or features (that can't be covered in other forums)
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Tazeram
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Artificial Intelligence

Postby Tazeram » Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:57 am

So i had a random thought while watching the Greenlight video:

https://www.facebook.com/gripvideogame/ ... =2&theater

Are the cars purposely avoiding you while you stand still? It looks like it.

I've been wondering how intelligent the AI will be compared to good old Rollcage, as i know cars would crash into you all the time if you were still.

Also how they use pick-ups strategically and how they choose routes on the track. It would be nice for them to give you a challenge on expert mode by being strategic and avoiding crashes where possible.

Also, can you prevent that damn leader missile from clipping and exploding in tunnels and other random places like it did in Rollcage! I want that badboy to make its way to the ass of the leader 100% of the time! :lol:
Last edited by Tazeram on Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Artificial Intelligence

Postby potterman28wxcv » Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:51 pm

+1 for a slightly better GPS in the leader missile ; but not too much, I still want to be able to fool the leader missile on some occasions :P
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Re: Artificial Intelligence

Postby Altair/t_n_o » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:37 pm

potterman28wxcv wrote:+1 for a slightly better GPS in the leader missile ; but not too much, I still want to be able to fool the leader missile on some occasions :P


+1 For potterman. Finding glitches is FUN too. :twisted:

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Re: Artificial Intelligence

Postby Unreal.2K7 » Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:05 pm

It's a bug until you can exploit it, then it becomes a feature.
But really, please, don't make the homing missile so dumb that helplessly slams into the track..
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Re: Artificial Intelligence

Postby Whiplash » Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:48 pm

RC1 AI's skill was already really great, especially for a game from the last century. I would actually be happy if GRIP could just copy/paste it. ;)
About the homing missile - yeah, it's great to be able to destroy it by that triple spinning missile (forgot the name :roll: ).

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Re: Artificial Intelligence

Postby Stinkinmushroom » Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:13 pm

Tazeram wrote:So i had a random thought while watching the Greenlight video:

https://www.facebook.com/gripvideogame/ ... =2&theater

Are the cars purposely avoiding you while you stand still? It looks like it.

I've been wondering how intelligent the AI will be compared to good old Rollcage, as i know cars would crash into you all the time if you were still.

Also how they use pick-ups strategically and how they choose routes on the track. It would be nice for them to give you a challenge on expert mode by being strategic and avoiding crashes where possible.

Also, can you prevent that damn leader missile from clipping and exploding in tunnels and other random places like it did in Rollcage! I want that badboy to make its way to the ass of the leader 100% of the time! :lol:


Wow didnt know there was new footage. Small but promising hehe

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Re: Artificial Intelligence

Postby Tazeram » Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:34 am

Stinkinmushroom wrote:Wow didnt know there was new footage. Small but promising hehe


It was made just to celebrate the game getting Greenlit! Hence the green Flares / Missiles / Whatever they are! :P

Whiplash wrote:About the homing missile - yeah, it's great to be able to destroy it by that triple spinning missile (forgot the name :roll: ).


Driller Missile!

Yeah. i want that to be implemented. I'm just arguing for the ability for the leader missile to not randomly hit obstacles on the way, rendering the weapon wasted.

To counteract this, i'm also wondering if the Leader missile should be able to be targeted by the targeting missile... that way the leader isn't screwed all the time because the leader missile will always reach them.

But at the same time, that might make the Leader Missile too easy to defeat, with both targeting missile, Driller missile and Shield.

Although i was also hoping the leader missile would be much faster, so it doesn't take forever to reach the leader, which is also annoying for the leader as you slowly hear "beep beep beep beep" get very gradually quicker for ages!

Not sure if all these factors would help counteract each other and make it a reasonable weapon. Not too OP, not too nerfed.

Just some random thoughts. :P

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Re: Artificial Intelligence

Postby landvaarder » Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:48 am

I think that a leader missile shouldn't be targetable by a homing

The leader missile is a weapon you can use when someone is too far ahead
If it is easy to counter, it will lose its effect and it will become a bad weapon to get, like the wormhole
It would give the feeling that you should just dump it because it hardly would connect

So just keep it counterable by shields, drillers and smart driving
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Re: Artificial Intelligence

Postby Altair/t_n_o » Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:40 pm

As we are talking about leader missiles, shields, drillers and homing missiles IMHO we should keep things as they are (except leader missile bumping into the wall). :)

P.S.
I don't know guys but for me targeting with homing a leader missile is working out of the box :mrgreen:
https://youtu.be/U3uEnempmbw

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Re: Artificial Intelligence

Postby Tazeram » Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:23 am

Altair/t_n_o wrote:P.S.
I don't know guys but for me targeting with homing a leader missile is working out of the box :mrgreen:
https://youtu.be/U3uEnempmbw


Wow, fair play!

I always found it easier to hit a leader missile with a Driller Missile. I've tried many times with the Homing Rocket and failed! :(

EDIT: I just realised from the first clip, that you are surely aiming and firing towards the leader missile, rather than managing to make them collide with no aim ability. I'm so confused how you can do that... :?\

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Re: Artificial Intelligence

Postby yellowquiet » Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:34 pm

While on the topic of leader missiles, can we make them rare so someone doesn't have to avoid five of them at once?
I didn't even know what was in the splatter pack before I bought it.

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Re: Artificial Intelligence

Postby potterman28wxcv » Tue Jul 21, 2015 6:13 pm

yellowquiet wrote:While on the topic of leader missiles, can we make them rare so someone doesn't have to avoid five of them at once?

In Rollcage it's true that the first one gets many of them ; but if these were not there, it would be very hard to catch up with the first one - and that's what makes Rollcage fun, the ability to still be able to win even if you did a very bad start.

Plus, when you actually have 3 of them to avoid, and when you do manage to avoid them, that provides you with a great satisfaction !

In Rollcage Stage 2, once you have the Scorpion or the Genesis, the leader missiles are so harmless that it's not annoying at all to have 5 at you :P

But more specifically, regarding weapon balance, I think that should be something that we (the players) will have to test during the Beta :) - if there is one, but I hope there actually will be one ! -
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Re: Artificial Intelligence

Postby Tazeram » Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:39 am

I want missiles to hit you with strong force! :P

But i guess that depends on the vehicles "Strength" stat...

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Re: Artificial Intelligence

Postby Chris_CE » Sun Jul 26, 2015 5:17 pm

Leader missile will do more force than a regular, for sure

I don't like the idea of being able to target it, so I suspect you won't be able to

And AI (back on topic) will be pretty smart. Avoiding things, trying to ram you off the road, taking shortcuts, etc.
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Re: Artificial Intelligence

Postby potterman28wxcv » Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:38 pm

Chris_CE wrote:And AI (back on topic) will be pretty smart. [...] taking shortcuts [...]

I hope you mean taking an alternate road. The problem with shortcuts is that you feel forced to take it when they exist, which makes the non-shortcut part unusable in the end.
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Re: Artificial Intelligence

Postby Unreal.2K7 » Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:57 am

Chris_CE wrote:taking shortcuts, etc.


Oh, would it be too much hassle to add an on/off switch for this? If we're going to have competitive human-level (or better) AI, it would create a problem if you're planning on training for weekly games without using shortcus but the bots don't care.
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Re: Artificial Intelligence

Postby potterman28wxcv » Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:35 am

Unreal.2K7 wrote:
Chris_CE wrote:taking shortcuts, etc.


Oh, would it be too much hassle to add an on/off switch for this? If we're going to have competitive human-level (or better) AI, it would create a problem if you're planning on training for weekly games without using shortcus but the bots don't care.

Weekly games are proper to our steam group, and only concern at most 20 players out of the 9000 potential who greenlit it

My concern about shortcuts is really that it forces people to take them. If you want to win in a shortcut-allowed race, you have to take the shortcut, so what's the point of having one in the first place since you will never drive on the non-shortcut path ?

But if shortcuts are just alternate path that do not present any kind of significant advantage, then why not.
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Re: Artificial Intelligence

Postby Tazeram » Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:36 am

potterman28wxcv wrote:My concern about shortcuts is really that it forces people to take them. If you want to win in a shortcut-allowed race, you have to take the shortcut, so what's the point of having one in the first place since you will never drive on the non-shortcut path ?

But if shortcuts are just alternate path that do not present any kind of significant advantage, then why not.


This. :!:

I've made past comments in other threads trying to emphasise the idea of numerous alternate paths, but which are roughly equal in distance. It provides tactic and variety in a race, but without the disadvantage of having actual short cuts which everyone would end up taking, thus negating the advantage of having alternate routes which i mentioned.

The Trailer included (at the end) a stone bridge route where the vehicle used turbo boost on, but also a lower-levelled continuation of the sand track, but neither looked particularly advantageous. It provides the player an option, depending on where the other vehicles are placed. You could have Turbo and want to take the jump... or you have a Driller Rocket and that annoying driver who is in front of you is turning down the sand track so you want to follow to shoot him, or more cars are going one way so i'll take the other route as it is slightly clearer and more likely to have fresh pickups... etc...

Obviously there should be longer alternate paths in tracks than what you can see in this Trailer, such as tunnels in mountains etc... but they shouldn't pose an obvious advantage. I didn't particularly like that in either Rollcage game. It made things to easy in AI mode, yet too cramped and restricted in competitive mode against your buddies.

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Re: Artificial Intelligence

Postby Yrch » Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:15 am

Chris_CE wrote:Leader missile will do more force than a regular, for sure

I don't like the idea of being able to target it, so I suspect you won't be able to

And AI (back on topic) will be pretty smart. Avoiding things, trying to ram you off the road, taking shortcuts, etc.


great to hear.
one thing that makes me come back to RC1 over and over is that the AI feels more "human" than in most other games, they dont feeld like they race on rails and you see them trying to ram you, raze building to slow you but also doing mistakes.
makes the game much more enjoyable compared to games like NFS and Wipeout where the AI cheats the physics :/



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