Industry.

Here you can post bug reports, comments, suggestions and other feedback regarding GRIP Early Access
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Queadah
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Re: Industry.

Postby Queadah » Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:14 am

@mrjimp: yep don't take offense :). For some (most?) of us, english is not even the first language... X) Then, there's diplomacy that ain't the strong suit for others ;)
Last edited by Queadah on Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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VooDooQky
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Re: Industry.

Postby VooDooQky » Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:21 am

Yep, I didn't mean to offend ya mrjimp, just shared my thoughts in opposition to your statements and suggestions, from my point of view. Specially about the "catchup to AI" and enjoyment factor of the game. The experience, what GRIP is giving to us might come down a bit different for everyone.

mrjimp
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Re: Industry.

Postby mrjimp » Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:35 pm

Every voice counts. Hell yeah. :)

Aight guys, this is GOOD to hear! I'm deleting all the made up bad vibes I got.

Also, I'm sorry if I'm stating things like they're definitive, or the only solutions. They are --> in my mind only<---- , and not in reality, and I'm very very ok with devs doing what they want, and you guys thinking what you want of my ideas.

So no offence taken here, and none given I hope!

Cheers!

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Queadah
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Re: Industry.

Postby Queadah » Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:53 pm

I can drink to that. Raising my beer to you dude *burp* :)

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Chris_CE
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Re: Industry.

Postby Chris_CE » Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:41 pm

If someone could give me a point form synopsis of the thread that would be great. Really, any feedback is much easier for me to read if it's point form and succinct
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potterman28wxcv
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Re: Industry.

Postby potterman28wxcv » Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:07 am

Chris_CE wrote:If someone could give me a point form synopsis of the thread that would be great. Really, any feedback is much easier for me to read if it's point form and succinct

Well, some ideas have been suggested, but almost all of them have been refuted or redirected to exisiting threads.

The only one that might be worth exploring, is to have the boost pad boosts you more if you're behind. But the con is that if you can't handle the extra speed (and it's likely that you can't handle it since you stay behind), it's gonna screw you more than anything.
Because I'm even more boring than Broscar -> Rules of the GRIP forum
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Chris_CE
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Re: Industry.

Postby Chris_CE » Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:50 am

Thanks potty
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codemonkey
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Re: Industry.

Postby codemonkey » Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:30 pm

mrjimp wrote:Alright guys.

I'm really trying to do this as good as I possibly can. This might be a wall of text, so please bear with me. (roar)

I've been playing on industry a lot lately. Its for only one reason. The new AI made this track really hard to win on. (classic race).

First obvious PROS:
The EMP is not used as often! Super! Races are much more action packed and fun!

So here is the deal.

If you get ahead early you win easily. If you end up in back of the pack on the first lap, you're in for a hardship and I can never see anyone win on this track from this position doing only 3-4 laps. I play on 8 laps, and I still cant beat it from this position.

Why is this?

Well, I'm gonna list a few reasons, they all work together to form up that "ALL VS YOU" feeling.

    The lead AI is mostly uninterrupted and is nowadays very very fast.

    All the cars seems to save at least one power up to throw in your face when you catch up to them.

    AI' cars are more about blocking you, than actually stay on the track and get a good race path. (this still especially goes for crashed racers getting back on track. They rather block you instead of getting back in the race)

    You cant no more safely empty your weapons bay, and might be stuck with 2 rockets, and therefore miss out on valuable power ups, such as shield or speed.


Alright, so sure, the game should be difficult right?

But the main question should be: Is the player having fun?!

I can agree that even though I'm not winning I'm having some great moments. Like when you're finally caught up to the leader on the last lap and you're side by side on the ramp....

But in the whole, all this is not a nice feeling. All those things combined make me feel 2 things:

Its all other racers VS me (i seldom see them fighting among themselves, and they always have rockets, guns, or mines when I'm around, + the block AI)

I have my hands tied behind my back cause I cant drop useless weapons when I need to.

I like the idea that you shouldn't be able to dumb fire rockets into the wall and not get affected by it, but I don't like it that you have no way of ditching power ups you don't need.


So what are my constructive ideas to try and fix this:

Make it possible to drop, discard, destroy, or any other way to get rid of weapons you don't need from you weapons bay without fireing them. Variations can be that you actually do drop the power up on the tarmac for others to pick up and eventually use against you (or other racers). (timer until the power up is gone?)

Make the shield have a timer until it runs out. This way it will be one power up to save and use skillfully. Also, the leader, while saving a shield for that assassin that will eventually hit him, will get access to less power ups along the road.

Make the AI's use more power ups vs each other, and thus make them fight more with each other.

Well, I've been going on about the block AI before, you know what I think about it. But for clarity: Limit the block AI. Only use it when there is a actual race battle -> Meaning its when one car is approaching from behind with similar speed. Do NOT block when you just crashed, or are crashing. Do NOT block if reaction time on the block is less than <sometime>. Do NOT block if the block most likely will result in a crash.


"Keeping the pack together"

As a last thing I know you've been discussing how to keep the pack together, and EMP beeing one of those tools for doing so (assassin being the other one). I don't believe in "slowing down the leader" strategy because it makes the skill of the leader irrelevant. And skill should be relevant.

I think there is another way to go, and thats via the speed pads. Make the speed pads boost better for players that are behind. If you miss a speed pad, no boost for you <- this make skill matter. A really bad player will not receive any extra boost compared to a skilled leader. However, an equally skilled player will catch just as many pads as the leader, and hence will be given more speed. Given that he actually can handle the extra speed (and not crash because of it) he will eventually reach the leader. its almost like catch up, but it requires you to actually use speed pads to get the bonus.

How much extra boost should players receieve? Assume speed pads give 100% boost (from some set amount). One formulae of extra boost depnding on position could then be myBoost = 100 + (5*(myPosition-1))
This would give the second car an extra 5% boost from the pad, and the last (10nth) car an extra 45%.

Anyhow, those are my humble opinions.

Keep it up guys!


Hi Jimmi, I'm confused, as much of what you've said is incorrect.

AI doesn't prefer to fight you any more than any other player (AI or human controlled) - they fight equally.

AI only blocks you very occasionally, and you have to be doing very similar speeds for it to try to do so. That you feel they deliberately block you when you're passing them at speed is a false perception.

AI doesn't fight at all when they've got ground to make up - you'll see them race more when they're trailing and only fight when they're in a pack.

If you don't want your pickups, use them dumbly as it's no big deal by far the vast majority of the time (and finding two more buttons on the gamepad would otherwise be quite problematic).

There's a ton of stuff we do to help you get back into a race, subtly adding more engine power and reducing wheel-spin time for example. Trust me, we're helping you.

As regards keeping the pack together - this is something we've already done a ton of work on. From balancing pickup assignment, the AI vehicle's use of pickups, the vehicle boost characteristics to the dynamic use of catch-up - we're doing a lot to help you come up from the rear. And in our opinion catch-up is almost mandatory in this game - you simply can't expect to recover from a crash at 500kph and proceed onto winning. In the real world, this would never happen - your opponents have covered far too much ground, far too quickly, for you to have a hope in hell of catching them up. Embrace the catch-up - it delivers a much better game. Incidentally, the catch-up is weighted far more towards giving you speed from the rear than taking speed away from the front - so leaders are not penalised very much at all.

Hope that helps to clarify a few things.
Rob
Technical Honcho
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