[LISTED] Open this world a little!

Here you give us specific suggestions on how you think the private release can be improved.

This isn't for bug reports, this is for features (example: wrong way indicator)
WROB3L
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[LISTED] Open this world a little!

Postby WROB3L » Tue May 10, 2016 3:48 pm

So i was messing around on every single map in race mode. I found some really weirdly placed invisible walls.
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^This building is awesome, make it destructible.^

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^Why? Just. WHY? You`re driving in the industrial zone, crashing into some industrial equipment is a normal thing that happens in scenarios like that!
Plus. Make it destructible.^

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^Next wall is there.^

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^Its too close to the racing track.^

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^As in image #2 +Make it destructible to some extend^

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^IMAGINE THE POSSIBILITIES! Mainly rockets could fly over that hill...^

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^AS IN IMAGE #2 AND #5 guess what. I want to see this exploding :333^

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^This one could be moved a little further.^

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^Alot of new players will want to check whats behind that hill. Damn, i want to know whats behind it xD^

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^This one is just weird...^

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^That one is a lil bit glitched out. And its connected to the segment before the bridge, Which is REALLY CLOSE to the racing track, New players will get pushed into the wall of the arch because of it and they won`t know why.^

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^Here. Ceiling is too damn low. Like really, REALLY LOW. And invisible walls could be moved further away.^

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^Ceiling is kinda low. Nothing more to that.^

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^This one. OOOOOOOOOH. This one, is annoying, af. There is that awesome hill and alot of room to drive around AND EVERYTHING IS BEHIND A WALL.^

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^This one is f*cked up. You will see in the next pic.^

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^YYYYUP, this one has to be moved alot further away.^

So my suggestion is: Move them further. And remove invisible ceiling, AND! remove grip from them, cars like to stick to them...



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V AS A BONUS, HERE! Have some glitchy bridges xD
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Re: Open this world a little!

Postby potterman28wxcv » Tue May 10, 2016 4:44 pm

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I think most of these barriers are here to improve the flow. When they were not here, it was just plain weird to crash into one of these things.
You would just lose too much time being thrown into the landscape.

There is a balancing here to be made : barriers close to race tracks, and buildings being then just decorative VS barriers looser, but then flow/recovery issues
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Re: Open this world a little!

Postby Django » Wed May 11, 2016 10:57 am

Sure potty. But barriers should not change the track in one big tunnel. And its always better to use "real" restrictions if possible. If there is a big wall anyway than there shouldnt be an invisible wall infront of it. And low ceilings? Please not. I dont see a good reason why it should be possible to crash against the sky.

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Re: Open this world a little!

Postby potterman28wxcv » Wed May 11, 2016 4:59 pm

Django wrote:Sure potty. But barriers should not change the track in one big tunnel. And its always better to use "real" restrictions if possible. If there is a big wall anyway than there shouldnt be an invisible wall infront of it. And low ceilings? Please not. I dont see a good reason why it should be possible to crash against the sky.

Good point - it's true that it feels way too artificial at times. Like GRIP is really taking your hand to get you back on track.
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Re: Open this world a little!

Postby WROB3L » Thu May 12, 2016 11:13 am

potterman28wxcv wrote:
Django wrote:Sure potty. But barriers should not change the track in one big tunnel. And its always better to use "real" restrictions if possible. If there is a big wall anyway than there shouldnt be an invisible wall infront of it. And low ceilings? Please not. I dont see a good reason why it should be possible to crash against the sky.

Good point - it's true that it feels way too artificial at times. Like GRIP is really taking your hand to get you back on track.


Exactly, on top of that, without those walls GRIP would be more realistic. You think that in real life they would bash into air and stop xD? tbh I would prefer to fly off the map, it would mean that i have to get better on this corner, it will keep me motivated to play this game and be as good as i can be.

I would forgot... Potty, how many times did you crash into the ceiling of the track in rollcage? xD
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Re: Open this world a little!

Postby Sigrid » Thu May 12, 2016 7:37 pm

Invisible walls are one of the things i hate most in videogames. I can understand why they are here in a race game like Grip, but honnestly i'd rather get far from the track if i miss my jump, and need to hold the A-button to get my car back on track than just bump on a wall i can't even see. I always wonder what's happening when it occurs.
In other games, adventure games for instance, with open worlds, it's a pleasure to take some time and discover the landscape, and invisible walls are so frustrating (and even in race games where the landscapes are great, like Grip, it's a pleasure sometimes to drive slow and get outside the track to take a look)!
Maybe the car should reappear a little faster when holding the A-button? But then maybe when the next patch comes out (with improved physics and all) it won't be necessary if the cars don't skid as much as they currently do.

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Re: Open this world a little!

Postby Django » Fri May 13, 2016 6:21 am

Sigrid wrote:In other games, adventure games for instance, with open worlds, it's a pleasure to take some time and discover the landscape, and invisible walls are so frustrating (and even in race games where the landscapes are great, like Grip, it's a pleasure sometimes to drive slow and get outside the track to take a look)!


+1

Flatout 1 (lets just not speak about the follow-ups ...) was a very nice racing game to go offroad. In some areas it was possible to go very far away from the track. If i remember correctly there was a 'back to track' button but if you didnt used it you could just go and explore. Mostly in the country town. I think they used the same area for different tracks.
Also in real open world games like GTA5 or Sleeping Dogs the racing has a better immersion because of the world in the background.

It would be a bit much to ask for a real open world but some less restrictions and some more 'fake' openness would be great.

'fake openness' = stuff to see in the background that lets the area appear bigger than it is. example

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Re: Open this world a little!

Postby Ryu Makkuro » Fri May 13, 2016 6:59 am

Django wrote:Also in real open world games like GTA5 or Sleeping Dogs the racing has a better immersion because of the world in the background.

It would be a bit much to ask for a real open world but some less restrictions and some more 'fake' openness would be great.

I'll trade a marginally better immersion for a proper stage design, since that's what open world kills. You cannot go balls out of the walls with designing the tracks if you have to count in that everything happens on the same piece of land and has to be logically connected etc.

Racing games are linear in their core. Adding open world is a surefire way to ruin any racing game out there.

As to all the invisible walls, as long as they don't hinder the racing itself, I don't mind them at all. GRIP is a racing game, not an exploring game. For that there will be No Man's Sky. Seeing stuff in the background is more than enough for me and most people. If there will be some invisible wall that will keep me from going into some nasty spot without having to resort to reset, great. But if it will be removed because someone instead of racing wants to drive around and explore the scenery... I'll be kind of pissed tbh. Then again I don't intend to crash, but explosions being a part of the game it's gonna happen whether I like it or not.
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Re: Open this world a little!

Postby WROB3L » Fri May 13, 2016 9:17 am

Ryu Makkuro wrote:
Django wrote:Also in real open world games like GTA5 or Sleeping Dogs the racing has a better immersion because of the world in the background.

It would be a bit much to ask for a real open world but some less restrictions and some more 'fake' openness would be great.

I'll trade a marginally better immersion for a proper stage design, since that's what open world kills. You cannot go balls out of the walls with designing the tracks if you have to count in that everything happens on the same piece of land and has to be logically connected etc.

Racing games are linear in their core. Adding open world is a surefire way to ruin any racing game out there.

As to all the invisible walls, as long as they don't hinder the racing itself, I don't mind them at all. GRIP is a racing game, not an exploring game. For that there will be No Man's Sky. Seeing stuff in the background is more than enough for me and most people. If there will be some invisible wall that will keep me from going into some nasty spot without having to resort to reset, great. But if it will be removed because someone instead of racing wants to drive around and explore the scenery... I'll be kind of pissed tbh. Then again I don't intend to crash, but explosions being a part of the game it's gonna happen whether I like it or not.


Still... Invisible walls are really not needed in racing games... There are no invisible walls in Gran Turismo or Forza, There are no invisible walls also in GRID, or F1 2016... Its really, REALLY not needed.
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Re: Open this world a little!

Postby Chris_CE » Fri May 13, 2016 9:25 am

I'm agreeing mostly with Ryu here. The game is about racing and getting the fastest time on a track, it's not about soaking in the scenery, that's what open world games are for.

Remember when I had the levels wide open with hardly any barriers? The cars flew everywhere and anyone who played the game at GDC got frustrated by the lack of bounds. Unfortunately, you guys who want it wide open are in the minority.

Not only that, but having you able to explore areas outside of the track means I have to make them look good, and making things look good uses up valuable resources.

So while I agree that some forcefield walls in the tracks could be replaced with world assets to make them look better and not feel as closed in, making the track flow with barriers is here to stay.

BUT, keep in mind that there are also only three tracks in the game. My next track is considerably more open.

I think you guys are just bored and are driving everywhere you can :D

WROB3L wrote:Still... Invisible walls are really not needed in racing games... There are no invisible walls in Gran Turismo or Forza, There are no invisible walls also in GRID, or F1 2016... Its really, REALLY not needed.

Yea.. this is just straight up not true, dude. Maybe you don't notice them because a missile isn't propelling your car 10 feet in the air
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Re: Open this world a little!

Postby Ryu Makkuro » Fri May 13, 2016 9:28 am

WROB3L wrote:Still... Invisible walls are really not needed in racing games... There are no invisible walls in Gran Turismo or Forza, There are no invisible walls also in GRID, or F1 2016... Its really, REALLY not needed.

Those games you mentioned have something in common that GRIP doesn't. You can't shoot somebody into the outer space (excluding bugs). You can do that in GRIP, so I find invisible walls the "necessary evil" that has to be implemented. Well, aside from the tracks that would be put on asteroids. I'd like to be blown up into outer space, for few seconds looking how the car disappears in the blackness of the space and then immediately reset into the track :D

Also, all those other games have other walls... as in actual visible walls that you can't pass in any other way. I kind of prefer invisible walls that don't obstruct the view behind it tbh.

Chris_CE wrote:Yea.. this is just straight up not true, dude. Maybe you don't notice them because a missile isn't propelling your car 10 feet in the air

Well, you say that but... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIXgt8yZjQs
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Re: [LISTED] Open this world a little!

Postby WROB3L » Fri May 13, 2016 10:34 am

Chris_CE wrote:
Remember when I had the levels wide open with hardly any barriers? The cars flew everywhere and anyone who played the game at GDC got frustrated by the lack of bounds. Unfortunately, you guys who want it wide open are in the minority.

Not only that, but having you able to explore areas outside of the track means I have to make them look good, and making things look good uses up valuable resources.

So while I agree that some forcefield walls in the tracks could be replaced with world assets to make them look better and not feel as closed in, making the track flow with barriers is here to stay.

BUT, keep in mind that there are also only three tracks in the game. My next track is considerably more open.



About the old version of industrial, I actually really liked it, it was really unforgiving.

"Not only that, but having you able to explore areas outside of the track means I have to make them look good"

Thats your work doood :D but i never said that they should be removed completely, I said that they should be moved alot further. The only thing that should be deleted are the ceilings.

Ryu Makkuro wrote:Well, aside from the tracks that would be put on asteroids. I'd like to be blown up into outer space, for few seconds looking how the car disappears in the blackness of the space and then immediately reset into the track :D


Like that? :D

Ryu Makkuro wrote:
Chris_CE wrote:Yea.. this is just straight up not true, dude. Maybe you don't notice them because a missile isn't propelling your car 10 feet in the air

Well, you say that but... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIXgt8yZjQs


You see? There is no ceiling :D
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Re: [LISTED] Open this world a little!

Postby Ryu Makkuro » Fri May 13, 2016 10:55 am

WROB3L wrote:Like that? :D

Kind of, though hell... I miss that song so much in GRIP.
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Re: [LISTED] Open this world a little!

Postby WROB3L » Fri May 13, 2016 10:57 am

Ryu Makkuro wrote:
WROB3L wrote:Like that? :D

Kind of, though hell... I miss that song so much in GRIP.


E-Z Rollers <3 Good old times...
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Re: [LISTED] Open this world a little!

Postby Django » Fri May 13, 2016 10:58 am

@Ryu Makkuro
Maybe i didnt made my point clear. I didnt tried to propagate a open world. Im just arguing for some less restrictions and only a almost unnoticable use of invisible walls. Im not against grip being a linear racer.
(and just for the record flatout 1 is also a very linear racing game, just a very nice designt one thats all)

It is not needed that we can go offtrack but it should SEEM like if that was possible.

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Re: [LISTED] Open this world a little!

Postby WROB3L » Fri May 13, 2016 11:00 am

Django wrote:@Ryu Makkuro
Maybe i didnt made my point clear. I didnt tried to propagate a open world. Im just arguing for some less restrictions and only a almost unnoticable use of invisible walls. Im not against grip being a linear racer.
(and just for the record flatout 1 is also a very linear racing game, just a very nice designt one thats all)

It is not needed that we can go offtrack but it should SEEM like if that was possible.



+1 to that. Give him a beer or somethin
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Re: [LISTED] Open this world a little!

Postby Ryu Makkuro » Fri May 13, 2016 11:04 am

Django wrote:It is not needed that we can go offtrack but it should SEEM like if that was possible.

Well, IMO it feels like that right now, so... where's the issue? I exclude the obviously unfinished/bugged parts.
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Re: [LISTED] Open this world a little!

Postby Django » Fri May 13, 2016 11:12 am

Ryu Makkuro wrote:I exclude the obviously unfinished/bugged parts.


Its not clear in which cases an invisible wall is there because the track is WIP or if it is meant to be there.

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Re: [LISTED] Open this world a little!

Postby Ryu Makkuro » Fri May 13, 2016 1:23 pm

Django wrote:
Ryu Makkuro wrote:I exclude the obviously unfinished/bugged parts.


Its not clear in which cases an invisible wall is there because the track is WIP or if it is meant to be there.

I find it quite clear tbh. If it leads to going over a hill that leads to another part of the track, obviously meant to be there. If it's there in the middle of nowhere... bugged/leftover etc.
I wouldn't even bother pointing those walls till the tracks will be in their properly finished state. Otherwise it's just wasting time if the track is going to be changed anyway.
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Re: [LISTED] Open this world a little!

Postby WROB3L » Fri May 13, 2016 4:30 pm

Ryu Makkuro wrote:I find it quite clear tbh. If it leads to going over a hill that leads to another part of the track, obviously meant to be there. If it's there in the middle of nowhere... bugged/leftover etc.
I wouldn't even bother pointing those walls till the tracks will be in their properly finished state. Otherwise it's just wasting time if the track is going to be changed anyway.



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Here. This wall is placed in a really bad place, In private version rockets were flying over that hill. Why is there a need for that wall?
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