Online MP - Ragequitters' punishment?

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Tathendal
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Online MP - Ragequitters' punishment?

Postby Tathendal » Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:47 pm

I think we all here (or most of us at least:) know and agree that ragequitters are the worst part of online multiplayer games.

Is there any kind of small punishment for ragequitters? That is the salty part of every multiplayer game. I am thinking something like if you manually quit before race ends 2 times in 30 minutes (or something) you get a 10 minute "penalty" and cannot join a race. Or you could get some sort of humiliating cosmetic to your car, or something. Grr, I hate ragequitters so much there must be some punishment :D Even a small one. So that they know what they have done. That feeling when you are off to a good start and after 1 lap you look at scoreboard and see that everybody has left and you are racing with bots...

I hope the community will be nicer than in some games and this won't be a problem, and hopefully this game doesn't need this kinda stuff, but if I would ever make an online game I would personally punish ragequitters very severely that's all I am saying.

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Re: Online MP - Ragequitters' punishment?

Postby Ryu Makkuro » Sun Sep 11, 2016 4:09 pm

Give titles for online races. Something like "Pro" or "NoobPwnr" etc.

And when someone rage quits, for 10 races they'll have a title that they are forced to. That title will be "Pussy".
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Re: Online MP - Ragequitters' punishment?

Postby psppwner300 » Sun Sep 11, 2016 4:55 pm

Or they could be called, "People who thought Caged Element had the funds from the Kickstarter."

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Re: Online MP - Ragequitters' punishment?

Postby potterman28wxcv » Sun Sep 11, 2016 8:13 pm

I would prefer unranked to be as friendly as possible. Maybe someone just jumped in a race with high level veterans, he knows he stands absolutely no chance, and wants to join another race that would have more newbies in it ? Or maybe he forgot to look at the settings of the race, and finds out the track is too hard (yet) for him. I don't think there should be punishments for ragequitting in unranked matches. Besides, I don't believe it would occur that often.

For ranked matches, ragequitting would happen way more often, because of people wanting to maximize their ranking per minute gain. This could even threaten the system if no action is taken (ragequitting becoming the norm because you potentially gain rating faster). To overcome this issue, I think the way Awesomenauts is about to handle it would be a good inspiration.

Basically, when you leave a race, your spot is replaced by an AI and reserved for you. As long as the race does not end, you cannot join another race than the one you exited. If you hit the "find match" button, it will just take you back to the race you disconnected (ragequitted ?) from.

However, this raises the question: if the bot finishes first while you're away, does it count like a win for you or not ? On one hand, if it does count like a win, we could imagine situations of newbies abusing the system if the online AIs are better than the newbies. On the other hand, if it does not count like a win, potentially one could imagine a situation where you make your way to the first position, and at the last minute you get disconnected. The bot replaces you for the last 10 seconds, and wins. You should have your win - the bot replaced you only for 10 seconds.

Maybe the rating gained should be proportional to the amount of time you actually spend in the race. If you let the bot race for you - you won't gain anything, and you can even lose some if your bot finishes last. So if you want to actually gain rating, you would have to be present in the race.

So in short, what I propose :
  • No ragequitting punishment for unranked matches
  • For ranked matches, the leaver is replaced by a bot, and the spot is "locked" until the end of the race. For this duration, the leaver cannot join any other race but the one he left. In addition, the amount of gained rating is proportional to the amount of time he spent in the race. The amount of lost rating remains the same, no matter what.

Ryu Makkuro wrote:Give titles for online races. Something like "Pro" or "NoobPwnr" etc.

And when someone rage quits, for 10 races they'll have a title that they are forced to. That title will be "Pussy".

There is an issue that should not be forgotten: it's not possible to 100% distinguish someone who ragequitted from someone who simply disconnected. False positives could be a problem here.

Besides, I am against anything that revolves around naming and/or shaming. This would only contribute to a hateful atmosphere in the game.

As a fervent Awesomenauts player, I preach against ragequitting and actively tries to reason anyone ragequitting that I see. They ruin the experience of everyone, including themselves, no doubt on that. But I don't think there should be such a hate around them. The system should just be so that it's not profitable for them to ragequit.
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Re: Online MP - Ragequitters' punishment?

Postby Queadah » Sun Sep 11, 2016 8:33 pm

psppwner300 wrote:Or they could be called, "People who thought Caged Element had the funds from the Kickstarter."

Yeah right lol

+1 for Potty's suggestion.
It sounds in line with the "jumping back in" thread of players able to take back control of the bot that replaced them after disconnecting. My feeling is that it confirms the bot lock duration should be significant enough so as to penalize potential ragequitting.

The 2 edged sword is perfect:
  • ok, you're covered in case you DC/you want to leave and get back in real quick
  • oops, you can't swap event until the one you left is over

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Re: Online MP - Ragequitters' punishment?

Postby TheOnLY » Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:02 am

I think people who leave should just get a dnf for that race and be able to rejoin for the next one, because you either leave on purpose or have a connection loss. If a disconnect occurs it will take some time to be detected and at this point your race is pretty much over anyway. I also wouldn't replace players with bots in competitive as it is highly abuseable

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Re: Online MP - Ragequitters' punishment?

Postby potterman28wxcv » Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:07 pm

TheOnLY wrote:I also wouldn't replace players with bots in competitive as it is highly abuseable

Which would be the point of gaining rating based on the amount of time you actually spent in the race.

If you abuse it, you would gain almost no point if you win, and you would still lose the same amount of points if you lose.
So in the end you'd better not abuse it.
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Re: Online MP - Ragequitters' punishment?

Postby Tathendal » Sun Sep 18, 2016 4:07 pm

potterman28wxcv wrote:Basically, when you leave a race, your spot is replaced by an AI and reserved for you. As long as the race does not end, you cannot join another race than the one you exited. If you hit the "find match" button, it will just take you back to the race you disconnected (ragequitted ?) from.

However, this raises the question: if the bot finishes first while you're away, does it count like a win for you or not ?


This is a good suggestion (and also good other points sorry about my anger I once played CoD for a while and the traumas will never heal I guess). The problem of people potentially benefitting this system could be solved so that the AI would be a noob/low-medium level, basically driving medium speed and maybe not even using offensive powerups. That way if you are first in during the last lap there is chance that you will win or come in 2nd whereas if you are the last the bot wouldn't be able to climb the 1st-3rd place unless the other players screw up really bad. This would be fair IMO (talking ranked matches here, didn't actually know there was going to be any ranking things:S).

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Re: Online MP - Ragequitters' punishment?

Postby Queadah » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:17 pm

potterman28wxcv wrote:gaining rating based on the amount of time you actually spent in the race.

Coming to think of it, the other way round might be more balanced:
  • losing points gradually based on the amount of time you didn't spend
This way you don't touch the points earned by drivers that played all the event through (no introduction of yet another point balancing issue), and you affect only the "faulty" players.

Being first is something like 250pts. 1 lap is approx 1min, so make the quitter's score his total plus what the bot earned minus 250pt/min-not-played

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Re: Online MP - Ragequitters' punishment?

Postby potterman28wxcv » Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:36 am

Queadah wrote:
potterman28wxcv wrote:gaining rating based on the amount of time you actually spent in the race.

Coming to think of it, the other way round might be more balanced:
  • losing points gradually based on the amount of time you didn't spend
This way you don't touch the points earned by drivers that played all the event through (no introduction of yet another point balancing issue), and you affect only the "faulty" players.

Being first is something like 250pts. 1 lap is approx 1min, so make the quitter's score his total plus what the bot earned minus 250pt/min-not-played

So the more he doesn't play, the less rating he loses ?

If he doesn't play 1 minute, he loses 250 pt
If he doesn't play 3 minutes, he loses ~80 pt

Doesn't make much sense. Something the likes of 250 * (min_not_played / total_race_time) would fit more your description.

By the way, on my model, I don't touch the points earned by the drivers at all. Mathematically, this would be the general formula for gaining rating:
rating_gained = match_rating_win * (amount_of_time_you_spent / total_time)
Where match_rating would be based on the rating of the opponents you faced, along with which one of them you defeated.

If someone plays for 100% of the match duration, he gets full rating. If someone plays only 25%, he gets quarter rating. So it would be disadvantageous for someone to play only 25%, since all the others would get 4 times more rating than him.

The rating lost would not depend on the amount of time you spent, so it would be:
rating_lost = match_rating_lose
where match_rating_lose would be based on the rating of your opponents, along with which one defeated you

In the end, your rating would be increased by rating_gain, and decreased by rating_lost : new_rating := old_rating + rating_gain - rating_lost

So what happens if someone joins a race and leaves right after joining ?
rating_gain = 0 (even if match_rating_win is > 0 because his bot might have gained some positions, he didn't spent anytime in the race)
rating_lost = something varying between 0 and high number. Basically, if he gets lucky, his bot gets first and he doesn't lose anything. If he doesn't, well he loses against everyone.

In any case it would not be beneficial to ragequit in terms of rating. Which is the only reason why people ragequits in the first place: to get rank points faster. If you deny them that advantage, no more reason for them to ragequit.
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Re: Online MP - Ragequitters' punishment?

Postby Queadah » Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:06 am

potterman28wxcv wrote:So the more he doesn't play, the less rating he loses ?

Nope, the more rating he loses, obviously X)
potterman28wxcv wrote:If he doesn't play 1 minute, he loses 250 pt
If he doesn't play 3 minutes, he loses ~80 pt

the other way round, meaning
1min = -250pt
3min -750pt

Perhaps too much. You could scale the above in half.

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Re: Online MP - Ragequitters' punishment?

Postby potterman28wxcv » Fri Oct 21, 2016 10:30 am

Queadah wrote:
potterman28wxcv wrote:If he doesn't play 1 minute, he loses 250 pt
If he doesn't play 3 minutes, he loses ~80 pt

the other way round, meaning
1min = -250pt
3min -750pt

Perhaps too much. You could scale the above in half.

Well, if being first awards you 250 points, then this would mean that by not playing 3 minutes he would lose the equivalent of being first 3 times ?
It's a bit harsh don't you think ? :p

(if you divide it by two, just replace the "3 minutes" of my example with "6 minutes")
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Re: Online MP - Ragequitters' punishment?

Postby Volken » Fri Oct 21, 2016 6:23 pm

Love the idea! +1


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