Feedback from an Old Rollcage 'Fanboy'...

Here you give us specific suggestions on how you think the private release can be improved.

This isn't for bug reports, this is for features (example: wrong way indicator)
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Feedback from an Old Rollcage 'Fanboy'...

Postby sebb1503 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:51 pm


V1.2.8 Post

First of all, off the bat, I'm so incredibly blown away by what you as a team have achieved with GRIP. I wish that I'd have known it was coming, so that I could be hyped up! I saw it by chance on steam and instinctively (yet cautiously) purchased it. Well done.

I'm certainly not looking for a Rollcage 3 here. But I'm loving the similarities, and I shall reference them. Where I've spent some time looking through feedback, I've been somewhat disappointed by some feedback given for a game so early in alpha, so I want to try and keep this as barebones as possible. Please don't become distracted by minor off-branch options until the core of the game is spot on. That was what made Rollcage amazing: Its gameplay. Not it's features.

What I Love:
- The feeling of piloting a heavy bulk of metal with the power of a thousand suns. Please don't ever loose this.
- The tossing and turning when you bugger up
- The working Jet engines noticeable in air
- The feel and look of gear changes

What I could Suggest
Steering - Wallows on some cars. often feels delayed and, although there are reports of over-steering at high speed, I seem to notice the wheel angle is looking like the car is under-steering
Jet Spool - Take your foot off the gas and you get instant deceleration. Foot back on and the Jets spool up gradually. (I make the assumption here that the car isn't purely 100% jet driven? It's also driven by it's wheels to some extent too? Either by Lore or Physics...)
Hit Mechanics - Although I see people complaining about hit mechanics, I think you could take a sheet out of the book of a few other video games. If you nudge someone and make contact with your front half, you should remain (relatively) static. They should always come off worse (I'm thinking Burnout style). There is a whole argument here about the realism of external tyres hitting each other... but which one would encourage more ramming and thus more fun?
Suspension - The cars are in need for better suspension - over the top suspension. Do you remember the excessive travel that the roll-cage cars had? It was crazy and it made a huge part of the fun.

Visual and Audio
What I Love:
- The cars are starting to sound more and more like liquefied orgasm. The dreadnought with that high pitch whine of a jet over a grumbling V8 like noise is just incredible
- The animation on the cars and the engines it looking amazing - still a lot of room for improvement
- The overall game is incredibly pretty. You have made this look like a AAA piece
- I've got to go back to that noise thing again, you have got the audio sounding amazing

What I could Suggest
Animate the cars more - Thrust vectoring the engines - Differential thrust on the twin engines. Perhaps an engine start-up sequence with the jet popping into life. Flaps that lift up and down
Trails - A car heading this quickly would have significantly more impact on its surroundings. I'd love to see more trails or tracks. Perhaps a bit of persistent engine gas/ion trails?
Brakes - Brakes heating causing a glow on the terrain?
Audio Priorities - The heat of racing is often a... covfefe of noise. It's hard to differentiate. You always knew when a weapon was heading towards you in rollcage. I must say I find it hard to say the same in GRIP

Weapons, Balance and Power Ups - Balancing in power ups should always revolve around one thing - How far behind you are or how hard it is to use effectively.

What I Love:
- The launching of the missiles. They are slow and they keep your inertia. The amount of times I've tried to launch when landing only to blow myself up is hilarious. Please don't make this easier... Just ensure the trade-off of having a powerful missile is there when it lands.
- Focus on their effect. You spend a lot of time making the power ups feel like a core component. Please keep that.
- Being hit is really frustrating and you can feel the effects of each individual weapon and know what hit you. This is all good news as they are doing their job well. (I believe more can be done with improving the feeling of making a 'hit' though)
- Consistency with Rollcage - You get shields at the front and Assassin missiles at the back. Please continue to spend this time thinking about when would be appropriate for what weapon.

What I could Suggest
Chaingun Too wide an angle of 'lock'. Too long range. Too much damage. And where the hell are my tracers? I want to see that thing ricocheting off everything it hits. It's mechanic of making the person slip and loose control was it's best feature.
Names/Symbols I've been playing this game for a while now, and I still haven't got a clue what's called what. Can we add somewhere where this can be visible? Like in the stats screen at the end where a little symbol displays next to the weapon name?
Boost Power-up For a car so big... Boosting feels quite tame. I think this needs an overhaul. This Is my favourite Audio boost from any game. I feel like the boost should match that somehow. Also, on the topic of boost... the passive boost that you get? It feels a bit... much. And the car bunny hop thing. They seem very... gimmicky.
Doubling upIt would be amazing to implement the doubling up feature like Rollcage. There are two ways this can be done. Like in stage two, where you get a power up V2 and the power up ring flashes (I didn't really like this) Or by getting two of the same powerups and using them together. Although I would only think this mechanic to be worthwhile if the Power-up pickups are increased as it encourages people to 'save' their power ups.

Aaaand there you go. With all this being said, I believe this is one of the best games I've played this year, and I really look forward to seeing the new content. Thank you Devs!

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Re: Feedback from an Old Rollcage 'Fanboy'...

Postby Broscar » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:17 am

Thanks for the feedback, sebb. Always good to see fellow Rollcage players return for GRIP :D

I agree with about 95% of your text. Some of the things you're suggesting are either minor, not feasible (performance cost on consoles is a concern), or planned for the polishing phase of the game, but it's definitely important to have potential improvements written down already.
(Doubling up is kinda replaced by charging weapons btw)

Jet spool is a pretty big no-no to most people. It already took a majority of the fanbase shouting for a few months straight before acceleration was increased, don't give Rob a reason to slow us down again :p

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Re: Feedback from an Old Rollcage 'Fanboy'...

Postby sebb1503 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:37 pm

It's reassuring to hear that these features are in planning. I appreciate that you may have heard most of this before, but at least you can add a +1 to "The players like it/dislike it"

RE the Jet Spool. I wasn't necessarily thinking about slowing things down. In case it warrants further explanation, picture this. You just hit the gas. You get say... 60% acceleration immediately. Over the course of a second, this ramps up to 100%. Over the course of 5 seconds, this ramps to 130% - (%'s here relative to the current acceleration found in-game). More of a low/high bypass system.

I guess I'm looking for another reason to add awesome sounds!

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Re: Feedback from an Old Rollcage 'Fanboy'...

Postby Queadah » Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:54 pm

I find myself agreeing with... all of this !
I understood your jetspool argument. Pedal off the metal, it'd be reasonable to feel a quicker loss of accel somehow (if I got you correctly), however as Broscar said, you can't imagine how much of a fight it has been to have that accel (still too low to most), so tweaking anything related to it would make us fearful of a nerf !! Brakes and drifting do nicely their job so...

Oh, and you have NO IDEA the fight it has taken to even suggest pickup doubling up ! (Filled under "pickup stacking" in the "weapon" subforum). Holy Jesus.

Loved your covfefe reference btw :P

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Re: Feedback from an Old Rollcage 'Fanboy'...

Postby atv_123 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:31 pm

I have to say... this should be the template for how feedback is given... very nicely done sir.

As for spooling and unspooling of the Jets to quickly, that can actually be remedied.

If you imagine these rigs as crazy hybrids that use both a jet engine and piston engines as forms of propulsion... then it becomes easier to understand how this might work. As noted... when you come off the gas and jump back onto the gas, the propulsion from the wheels and jets seems to be almost instant... We also know that while piston engines can change their speeds rather readily, turbine engines take a while to spool and get up to speed. So... how can we bypass that issue?

Well... if there were some form of clutch system (engaging and disengaging) and a step up box (just a geared step up to sync the RPM's), we could use the crankshaft from the piston engine and connect it directly to the prop shaft of a turbine engine... simply engage the clutch, rev the piston engine, and within a second or two, you are up to full RPM's on your Jet engine ready to be dishing out full power.

On the flip side, during gear changes, since the Jet will already be at full RPM and power, when the piston engine changes gears and loses RPM's, the Jet engine's clutch could theoretically re-engage and somewhat help pull the Piston engine back up to RPM giving a boost of low end grunt to the wheels in every gear (except first gear because that is where the piston engine would be spooling the turbine in the jet engine). For the upshifting power boost to work, it would also need a torque converter that allows for some slip in the system as well so that the Jet wouldn't loose to much RPM's when the clutch was re-engaged.

This little technique could also be used on the startline as well for first gear... in the old rollcage games you used to be rewarded for nailing the throttle at the perfect moment at the start of a race and would get a big boost. Well in this instance, you would need to hold in your throttle to build your turbine RPM's to their optimal launching RPM's... granted, if you rev the turbines too far, then you will have too much power to engage the system on launch, so to keep from damaging your car, it will wait till you have built up speed with only the piston engine and the turbine thrust first before it can re-engage the clutch and give you that boost. This could make the starts of races rather interesting, as rigs with bigger turbines would need the throttle held in for longer to be able to achieve their optimal launch RPM while smaller, lighter rigs with smaller, lighter turbines would need much less time to spool up... meaning that it's much easier to mess up the start if you jump from rig to rig rather often.

As for startup sequences at the start of the races... I think that would be epic... hearing the big piston engine sputtering to life... with possibly a bit of black smoke, and then the drain on the engine as it spins the Jets to life and each one pops to life individually... oh man... that would make for such an epic start of every race.

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