GRIP Update 1.0.10 now available on Steam Private branch!

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GRIP Update 1.0.10 now available on Steam Private branch!

Postby Chris_CE » Mon May 30, 2016 11:59 am

This patch took a long time, mainly because so much work was put into ironing out physics issues, as well as setting up the cars for future customization options. Although it may seem like a small patch at first, you'll soon notice that the game plays a lot better.

Here are the major things in this patch. Full changelist will be released once the patch is fully public.

  • Big improvements to collision responses. Not only does the car not catch on things or bounce nearly as often, but car vs car collision is also much improved (this is not final - work still needs to be done in all areas of collision). This was/is a major task and took up most of Rob's time.
  • New Power-up: EMP. Keep in mind that this is the first version of the EMP, so it will be moire balanced and look better as time goes on
  • Added more immersive lighting and effects to all three tracks
  • Improved explosion effects: Most explosions now have more intensity and cinematic quality
  • Improved Dreadnaught textures and thrust effects

Unfortunately there's no Norvos map in this patch, as it simply was not yet ready for public consumption. We don't want to give off the wrong impression by releasing a very unfinished level.

This patch was mostly about setting things up to make future development better. So that's a very good thing ;)
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Re: GRIP Update 1.0.10 now available on Steam Private branch!

Postby TheOnLY » Mon May 30, 2016 12:33 pm

The landings
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Where is the difference between medium and normal difficulty? :lol:

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Re: GRIP Update 1.0.10 now available on Steam Private branch!

Postby Raion » Mon May 30, 2016 1:06 pm

Aw yeah, nicely done Rob. Just a few races, but it's immediately apparent that scraping paint with the other cars behaves closer to what you'd expect going in. Other subtleties I didn't notice, it's been a while since I went for a spin (life has been a blur since Dark Souls 3 came out).

I like the way the EMP is balanced in regards to the deployment. The deliberately slowly expanding bubble seems like it could give a chance to hard brake if seen coming (testing pending) or blast a turbo off to get away, provided an audio clue was given at detonation: on a couple of occasions on Transport, when I had raked up a sizeable lead, I got hit by a wave but still had enough time to get going again before whomever triggered it even reached me. I'd expect in that situation I was far enough that I could have escaped it with a little boost, maybe? What is the range on the thing anyway? Seems weird I could get hit, but was still so far they wouldn't catch up (oh yeah, catch up on btw).

Is the duration of the stun fixed? I ask because I like the way the power up slot is held for a duration, but I can't tell if it's supposed to be the duration of the expanding bubble, or the duration of the stun inflicted to other drivers (to keep things balanced), which brings me to this: what if the duration of the stun was related to the distance from the epicenter of the blast? Of course that would mean the closest racers would be penalized the most, while the rich got richer, but the latest would have more of a chance to catch up. I dunno.

Finally, this may just be bad RNG, or novelty bias, but really, dat EMP spam. Seems far too frequent (like Assassins felt when first introduced), and as much maliciously fun it is to use on others, it's really annoying getting hit by it repeatedly. Which makes me wonder about pickup bias again: is it gonna be truly random, or some weapons are just too powerful for the roll not to be weighed.

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Re: GRIP Update 1.0.10 now available on Steam Private branch!

Postby Queadah » Mon May 30, 2016 1:43 pm

+1 over car-to-car collision ! Had some shoulder to shoulder fun action seconds ago ^^
Drift is also ridiculously fun :)

Also, the sky is green on Liddo 5, I know it's little, but I truly felt elsewhere \o/

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Re: GRIP Update 1.0.10 now available on Steam Private branch!

Postby Ryu Makkuro » Mon May 30, 2016 2:49 pm

Ok, after racing on all 3 tracks, here are some quick thoughts.

Pros:
- the new lighting feels great, especially on Transport. Those blue lights in the tunnels are sick :D
- collisions... holy moly, this is just... sorry, need to the bathroom xD
- massive improvement to how Dreadnought "looks" in terms of quality. Also the shield doesn't clip the ground anymore, at least it definitely feels different from before.
- physics... words cannot describe the improvement... crap, bathroom time again xD
- seems AI listened to the Dark Souls advice, aka "git gud". On hard mode, they are competitive as hell. Well, at least the 2nd position is, rest is kind of being lapped. And whole AI doesn't seem to like Alhatra at all, since I've lapped the 2nd position on 8 laps about 3 times...
- New assets on the tracks are nice, especially like those electrical lines and towers on Alhatra that give off what I believe was intended to be sparks, but ended up being some glowing purple balls xD Still cool though :D
- car control is so good now, I can get back from a mess up quickly, actually counter-steer a slide effectively and control the car.
- machine gun sound... ME GUSTA :D

Cons:
- Dreadnought now feels 100% like Dominator with a higher top speed, literally. I wouldn't be able to tell one apart from the other if it weren't for the speedo. Bring back the first handling and cornering performance of it with the top speed and acceleration from the previous patch (or something between that straight-line performance and now) and it will be the tank we all dreamed about.
- Both Dominator and Dreadnought (especially Dreadnought though) sound incredibly... disappointing when their revs are going down, especially after using a turbo. When they rev up, they sound kind of like a mighty beast that riles up, but when they rev down... it reminds me of a disappointed hippo, not to mention they sound like they don't have any power/torque at all.
- I meant to mention that before but... gears on a jet powered car? What for? Unless it's a placeholder for now, then completely understand, but I expect this to be corrected in the future. On that note, those cars should have a more... jet like sound coming from them IMO.
- the gravel road textures on Industrial and Transport have that "rough" transition, as in no transition. Especially noticeable on the gravel that goes over the... metal (?) road or in Industrial right before the last tunnel, in that "valley".
- cars happen to sometimes bounce in a strange way, mainly on landing from a high-speed action, aka on strong impacts. Nothing severe because it's easily controllable but it does happen from time to time and impacts the times negatively.


Generally speaking... can't wait for the online mode and Norvos track. At that point this game is gonna take over my life for a long time I think xD One thing to note though, the extra lighting has a negative impact on performance. HOWEVER, given that it improves the visuals and immersion greatly, that's something that is to be expected, so I'm all for more improvements like that. Just pointing it out.

PS. Hit an AI with a missile while it was airborne \o/
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Re: GRIP Update 1.0.10 now available on Steam Private branch!

Postby Skid » Mon May 30, 2016 3:20 pm

Ryu Makkuro wrote:- I meant to mention that before but... gears on a jet powered car? What for?


Theory crafting here: These cars don't have flaps to divert air to change direction, and if you put a jet engine on the back of a car then all the thrust is going out the back pushing it forward which will make it very hard to turn the thing regardless of how much grip you have. The jet engine probably converts a large amount of it's power to drive the wheels to pull the car around a turn rather then try and push it as that will provide better traction and a better turning circle, and if your going to drive the wheels then gears make sense to better balance the toque from the engines.
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Re: GRIP Update 1.0.10 now available on Steam Private branch!

Postby Ryu Makkuro » Mon May 30, 2016 3:33 pm

Skid wrote:
Ryu Makkuro wrote:- I meant to mention that before but... gears on a jet powered car? What for?

The jet engine probably converts a large amount of it's power to drive the wheels to pull the car around a turn rather then try and push it as that will provide better traction and a better turning circle

Well, last time I checked, if you don't have a differential and wheels can simply turn on their own, you'll have best possible cornering performance that way. If you have a differential (which is what is required for your idea to work) then you're effectively having a worse turning circle. Straight line traction indeed does improve with the differential, but at the same time you need more traction because the movement comes from tires, which in the end means you actually have worse traction. There's a reason why the fastest drag machines use jet engines. No wheel spin, best possible traction of the line in any situation. You're being pushed from behind the car, not from "below it".

Given that the cars are capable of driving on ceiling, that means they have enough downforce to offset their weight and then some more. That downforce in result is what helps the car turn, making the jet thrust function as the only source of speed and allowing the wheels to be purely for cornering, rather than having to do both cornering and accelerating at the same time as in a situation where acceleration comes from the wheels.

And most importantly, the cars are accelerating due to the jet thrust, not wheels. Chris confirmed this some time ago if I recall correctly.
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Re: GRIP Update 1.0.10 now available on Steam Private branch!

Postby Queadah » Mon May 30, 2016 4:04 pm

Btw, the lighting and slight haze on Jahtra works wonders

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Re: GRIP Update 1.0.10 now available on Steam Private branch!

Postby potterman28wxcv » Mon May 30, 2016 5:55 pm

Ryu Makkuro wrote:
Skid wrote:
Ryu Makkuro wrote:- I meant to mention that before but... gears on a jet powered car? What for?

The jet engine probably converts a large amount of it's power to drive the wheels to pull the car around a turn rather then try and push it as that will provide better traction and a better turning circle

Well, last time I checked, if you don't have a differential and wheels can simply turn on their own, you'll have best possible cornering performance that way. If you have a differential (which is what is required for your idea to work) then you're effectively having a worse turning circle. Straight line traction indeed does improve with the differential, but at the same time you need more traction because the movement comes from tires, which in the end means you actually have worse traction. There's a reason why the fastest drag machines use jet engines. No wheel spin, best possible traction of the line in any situation. You're being pushed from behind the car, not from "below it".

Given that the cars are capable of driving on ceiling, that means they have enough downforce to offset their weight and then some more. That downforce in result is what helps the car turn, making the jet thrust function as the only source of speed and allowing the wheels to be purely for cornering, rather than having to do both cornering and accelerating at the same time as in a situation where acceleration comes from the wheels.

And most importantly, the cars are accelerating due to the jet thrust, not wheels. Chris confirmed this some time ago if I recall correctly.

Guys --> viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2642

I'm all good for some discussion about Jet vs Wheels, but it is not specific to the patch, and there is already a topic about it.
Please continue your discussion in the above-mentionned topic, thanks :-)
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Re: GRIP Update 1.0.10 now available on Steam Private branch!

Postby wantfastcars » Tue May 31, 2016 2:21 am

Quick thoughts:

Good:
-New sound for machine gun is great
-EMP is a great idea to start
-Clipping is all but gone
-Driving on the whole feels nicer now
-New visuals and track elements look awesome
-Sliding feels a lot more natural
-Vehicle-on-vehicle collisions have taken an enormous step forward

Bad:
-EMP is hilariously overpowered and stupidly rare
-The "one wheel tug" of yesterpatch is back with a vengeance
-Norvos track is teasing me with it's existence but unplayable state
-Dust effects on Jahrta have a small but noticeable impact on framerate (~10%)
-PhysX objects still react like they have a ton of mass when a car collides with them, but get launched into the air by the faintest puff of a breeze
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Re: GRIP Update 1.0.10 now available on Steam Private branch!

Postby Cheshire » Tue May 31, 2016 5:00 am

Will you change steering physics? At this point vehicles feel awkward. A car gets very fast a high speed, but almost loses ability to turn left-right. Also it loses down-force, and car could be easily thrown anywhere on slopes .
Probably, it would be ok for rocket simulator, but I remember Rollcage Stage 2 game, where vehicles had a strong ground grip and could turn over their spots, like tanks. It would be cool to see something similar like old physics than irons on wheels.

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Re: GRIP Update 1.0.10 now available on Steam Private branch!

Postby KazzyMac » Tue May 31, 2016 7:52 am

wantfastcars wrote:Bad:
-The "one wheel tug" of yesterpatch is back with a vengeance


What do you mean?
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Re: GRIP Update 1.0.10 now available on Steam Private branch!

Postby Queadah » Tue May 31, 2016 3:08 pm

KazzyMac wrote:
wantfastcars wrote:Bad:
-The "one wheel tug" of yesterpatch is back with a vengeance


What do you mean?

Same question ^^

[Side note, there is still a pickup outside the biodome and the sky is still blue there (unlike Transport) ! I'm an assh*le :mrgreen:]

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Re: GRIP Update 1.0.10 now available on Steam Private branch!

Postby mrjimp » Tue May 31, 2016 3:34 pm

Ill make this one quick:

New engine sound: -
New physics (generally): +
Dominator steering is too easy: -
EMP: + for idea, - for not affecting missiles and mines.
New machine gun sound: +

Overall, it feels like the game got slower somehow. Maybe it has to do with the new steering beeing easier, and you dont need to stress up for hard corners any more.

Still great work!

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Re: GRIP Update 1.0.10 now available on Steam Private branch!

Postby StickyBassline » Tue May 31, 2016 5:52 pm

I love the collisions but who soaped my wheels? It feels like I slide around with 0 friction whenever I lose control the slightest. The first shotcut in Yuri industrial feels nearly impossible since you now very easily lose control and when you do there's no getting out of the tunnel as it seems :?
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Re: GRIP Update 1.0.10 now available on Steam Private branch!

Postby wantfastcars » Tue May 31, 2016 11:58 pm

The "One wheel tug" I refer to is when you land with just one wheel on the ground, and your car whips around it at weird angles like all the grip of all four wheels has been focused on that one tire. It was a significant problem back in ~1.0.3 era, but had gotten less and less prominent as patches went on.
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Re: GRIP Update 1.0.10 now available on Steam Private branch!

Postby NecroWolf12 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:49 am

Really liking this update. Generally, the handling feels more predictable without feeling dumbed down. The new lighting is also really pretty, especially on wastes. Did you guys also do extra optimisation work? It feels like it runs better too.
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Re: GRIP Update 1.0.10 now available on Steam Private branch!

Postby Ryu Makkuro » Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:31 am

StickyBassline wrote:The first shotcut in Yuri industrial feels nearly impossible since you now very easily lose control and when you do there's no getting out of the tunnel as it seems :?

Heh, I can actually drive reliably through there now, before I couldn't.
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Re: GRIP Update 1.0.10 now available on Steam Private branch!

Postby potterman28wxcv » Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:15 am

Ryu Makkuro wrote:
StickyBassline wrote:The first shotcut in Yuri industrial feels nearly impossible since you now very easily lose control and when you do there's no getting out of the tunnel as it seems :?

Heh, I can actually drive reliably through there now, before I couldn't.

Same here. Do you use keyboard or controller Sticky ? What's your framerate ?
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Re: GRIP Update 1.0.10 now available on Steam Private branch!

Postby KazzyMac » Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:19 am

wantfastcars wrote:The "One wheel tug" I refer to is when you land with just one wheel on the ground, and your car whips around it at weird angles like all the grip of all four wheels has been focused on that one tire. It was a significant problem back in ~1.0.3 era, but had gotten less and less prominent as patches went on.

I've never had that happen, ever. I almost always land on two wheels on everything. O_o Unless my occasional crash in Yuri's first shortcut are the same thing.


StickyBassline wrote:I love the collisions but who soaped my wheels? It feels like I slide around with 0 friction whenever I lose control the slightest. The first shotcut in Yuri industrial feels nearly impossible since you now very easily lose control and when you do there's no getting out of the tunnel as it seems :?

I'm not having any problems with the shortcuts in Yuri, except the slot-box shortcut at the end of the track. The first one is easy, you just have to try and stay straight. To be honest it may be better that the slight elevation of the concrete wall/pillars against the rock surfaces in that part of the shortcut are changed to be completely flat because sometimes I do spin from landing partially on the concrete wall, but it's rare.

Also I think the car might have slightly less base grip on the lowest speed class than it did in 1.0.9. I know that High has a little more grip than Medium, and Wild has much more ((but I never play on Wild anyway)). You can see this for yourself by trying to negotiate Yuri's fabled banked concrete corner, so if you're playing on Medium speed that might be why the car feels a little slippier. It's supposed to make it more predictable and less prone to the traction causing the car to lose control (which I find to be correct).
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