VooDooQky wrote:If things are coming down like this, then all similar jumps are down to luck and no skill, since mostly you need a proper speed and angle for them.
Ryu Makkuro wrote:Problem with that fall is as simple as you crossing it safely was more down to luck than skill.
Ryu Makkuro wrote:Problem with similar jumps is that they are optional. And that was the only jump that really did that.
Tathendal wrote:Ryu Makkuro wrote:Problem with that fall is as simple as you crossing it safely was more down to luck than skill.
I don't agree, though there are chances of that happening those are pretty slim -> ergo I wouldn't say it is MORE down to luck than skill. And if you get hit by EMP early, you can slow down and accelerate again if you want to make sure you will make the jump. And why did you choose that route that has the jump in the first place? You took the risk, that's why. Also as discussed somewhere earlier, if every aspect of the game is modified so that there is absolutely no luck involved, it might become more boring. I say an epic jump is worth it even though you get unlucky maybe 1/100 times and don't make it because of luck.
Also I like these kind of elements since it is fun to fire missile or gattling before this part and laugh when enemy falls off. As I understand, GRIP isn't being developed with 100 % of serious competitive play in mind, in which case I would agree with you.
Tathendal wrote:Ryu Makkuro wrote:Problem with similar jumps is that they are optional. And that was the only jump that really did that.
1. Transport reverse much? (well it's not jump but you get seriously penalized if you get hit by anything before the 90 degree vertical uphill)
2. This was optional too, there is another route.
Ryu Makkuro wrote:First of all, there's no skill involved in making that jump.
Ryu Makkuro wrote:Secondly, there's nothing cool about being spin by a Raptor and then unable to make the jump because you can't get enough speed. Reset won't help you here, you literally have to drive backwards to make it...
Ryu Makkuro wrote:Also, that jump wasn't epic in any way. Annoying and/or frustrating... yes, epic... no.
Ryu Makkuro wrote:1. Transport reverse is a track I don't particularly enjoy, mainly since the corner that was removed in this patch was brilliant in normal way but completely and utterly crap in reverse. So I avoided that like cancer. Although the speed required to go up that wall is lower than the speed required to make that jump, funnily enough... That said, a row of speed pads will be placed (if it hasn't already) on the bottom of that vertical slope to make sure you'll always make it. Insider info
Ryu Makkuro wrote:2. It wasn't optional in the sense you couldn't avoid it after choosing a certain route.
Queadah wrote:All jumps are impacted by the EMP without exception
Tathendal wrote:I disagree, OFC there is always skill. There is skill involved in every jump, every corner, every bump, every second of the race. In this particular jump you have to drive straight and land straight and possibly make small correctional manouvers and possibly use roll in air. I don't see how you can say there is no skill involved, with that logic there isn't skill involved in any driving.
Tathendal wrote:You are ofcourse entitled to your opinion, but this is entirely an opinion. I think it's cool and it would be cool in any movie or game, when it's not too easily abusable ofcourse.
Tathendal wrote:So my point was that cool track elements should be allowed in the game, even though there might be small chance of you not making it because of luck. (Also let's point out here that if enemy times e.g. an EMP on purpose right before you hit the jump, that is not luck but the enemy's skill to utilize his powerups and the environment.)
Tathendal wrote:It is irrelevant whether you enjoy it or not. Also the speedpads won't help with this issue /the point I am making, since you won't gain speed from speedpads while hit by EMP or you won't probably hit the speedpads if you get hit by missile or gattling.
Tathendal wrote:So it actually WAS optional. You can drive the track without taking that jump once -> optional. I don't care how you rationalize it, but you didn't have to take that route if you wanted to minimize risks (or hated that route).
Ryu Makkuro wrote:Queadah wrote:All jumps are impacted by the EMP without exception
Then let's start counting the exceptions:
- every jump on Yuri + reverse (tested)
- every jump on Alhatra + reverse (tested)
- every jump on Transport + reverse (tested)
- now every jump on FIC Outpost + reverse (tested)
- no real jumps on Speedbowl (tested? xD)
Ryu Makkuro wrote:Tathendal wrote:I disagree, OFC there is always skill. There is skill involved in every jump, every corner, every bump, every second of the race. In this particular jump you have to drive straight and land straight and possibly make small correctional manouvers and possibly use roll in air. I don't see how you can say there is no skill involved, with that logic there isn't skill involved in any driving.
You have to drive somewhat straight, you don't have to land straight, you don't have to make small correctional maneuvers and you most definitely don't need to use roll. The only thing you need there, is enough speed. That's what I call a "no-skill" jump because... well... the amount of skill required to push a button to go forward and drive somewhat straight is close to none (arguably literally none when looked at people with ability to drive).
potterman28wxcv wrote:Do you have videos ? I mean, how do you know it's "tested" ?
Ryu Makkuro wrote:Roll saved my life more than once.. For example the jump right after the letter-box shortcut on Yuri, it might be useful to use roll.
Ryu Makkuro wrote:The only thing you need there, is enough speed. That's what I call a "no-skill" jump because... well... the amount of skill required to push a button to go forward and drive somewhat straight is close to none (arguably literally none when looked at people with ability to drive).
Ryu Makkuro wrote:Pretty sure you wouldn't be saying that after you had to back up quite a long way few times in order to make that jump.
Ryu Makkuro wrote:Again, being shot and then realising you can't make the jump or simply falling down there, hitting reset button and appearing right in front of the jump ain't fun or cool. Because that means you need to start driving the opposite way just so you can progress forward. In a racing game, this apart from not making sense at all is highly frustrating. It's not an opinion here, because a piece of gameplay that is not down to skill but quite literally luck and can easily halt your progress massively, results in a frustrating experience.
Ryu Makkuro wrote:Again, it's not an opinion because this is a well known fact in the gaming industry. And don't bring Dark Souls here, because unlike a random thing that comes flying your way against which you can't do a thing if you don't have the right tools at your disposal (which are also random), in there everything is down to skill. Which is most likely why it's so popular.
And movie? This is a racing game, not a movie where Hollywood tricks are the main thing. And the fact it's a movie is what makes those situations seem "cool", because first... it's not you being stuck there so you're not the one experiencing frustration, secondly it's an easy hollywood story trick, third because it allows the typical super character power of whatever moments (aka a cheap cliche).
Tathendal wrote:Well I don't know what part of Outpost in your opinion then would require this skill you are talking about. You can pretty much drive the whole track without letting go of gas. Also, OK, we all get that you want to give the impression that you are good in the game, not everybody is your skill level. I think all jumps require skill even you think not.
Tathendal wrote:Yes exactly this is the case. This has happened to me maybe once during my 64 hours with GRIP and I have managed to shoot someone so they fall maybe couple of times so I can't get a grip out of your thinking how this is a problem.
Tathendal wrote:Well then I am sure it is no problem to make the reset point so that you spawn after the jump or in the other route.
Tathendal wrote:Ryu Makkuro wrote:And movie? This is a racing game, not a movie where Hollywood tricks are the main thing.
You are putting words in to my mouth. I never said that those need to be the main thing. I am not saying this is a movie. I am saying that epic jumps are epic jumps and cool track elements are cool track elements, and there are things that would be awesome in a game, or in a movie, and it would be a shame to not include those "if they involve more luck than skill" by your words.
Tathendal wrote:I don't get what Dark Souls has to do with this, and I don't get what is a well known fact in gaming industry. The frustration part can be fixed easily e.g. by tweaking the reset spawn point.
Ryu Makkuro wrote:It's not an opinion here, because a piece of gameplay that is not down to skill but quite literally luck and can easily halt your progress massively, results in a frustrating experience.
Again, it's not an opinion because this is a well known fact in the gaming industry.
Tathendal wrote:By your posts I assume you want GRIP to be some sort of supercompetitive racing game by eliminating all little bits of luck that might effect the outcome, well it is not going to be that in any case as far as I have understood what the game tries to be. Might be that I am wrong though. We disagree about that jump, in your opinion it is frustrating and in mine it is a fun track element. We clearly have different priorities in mind, and we both are not the devs, so we both can state our opinions and the devs will decide what they do. Therefore I won't continue this pointless discussion.
WROB3L wrote:i really dont get it, and whats with the barriers on the bridge?!
Transport was perfect for what it was. Now this track difficulty level should be changed to very easy instead of easy.
Cybruiser57Péter wrote:So there will be no new updates for the private part?
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