Tathendal wrote:Well I don't know what part of Outpost in your opinion then would require this skill you are talking about. You can pretty much drive the whole track without letting go of gas. Also, OK, we all get that you want to give the impression that you are good in the game, not everybody is your skill level. I think all jumps require skill even you think not.
Well, Outpost doesn't have a difficult jump on it. It's as simple as that. Yuri or Alhatra are a different story, especially Yuri, where you'll be using roll quite a bit, even more so if you're taking the alternate route at the start. You have to line up the jumps on those tracks a lot more carefully as well, especially when you want to get into some other routes or avoid having contact with the barriers or simply to avoid having to use roll etc.
The difficulty on Outpost comes from the bumpy terrain and all the blind corners where you never know what's behind them. It's a very high speed track, so it's only natural that it may feel "easy" to those that have a very good knowledge of the track and control of the car, but in general it is actually a rather challenging track when you don't know the track layout and your car control is barely average.
Also you can drive any track in the game flatout. That doesn't mean they are easy or that doing that is easy. Skill in an arcade racer such as GRIP comes from precision of driving. Not from slowing down or having enough speed for something. Those are only byproducts of being precise (or not precise). The more precise your driving is... the faster/better you are.
Tathendal wrote:Yes exactly this is the case. This has happened to me maybe once during my 64 hours with GRIP and I have managed to shoot someone so they fall maybe couple of times so I can't get a grip out of your thinking how this is a problem.
To you just once. But not everyone has that much luck or simply isn't that good and won't be capable of taking that jump. It's not about what happened to you, but what can happen to anyone. Being locked from progressing is not an epic, cool or fun thing in any way.
Tathendal wrote:Well then I am sure it is no problem to make the reset point so that you spawn after the jump or in the other route.
So you'd have to fall there to be able to cross it? With all due respect, but that's a stupid idea. There are a lot simpler solutions that don't require people failing, like a bridge, wallride around the jump, etc.
Ryu Makkuro wrote:And movie? This is a racing game, not a movie where Hollywood tricks are the main thing.
You are putting words in to my mouth. I never said that those need to be the main thing. I am not saying this is a movie. I am saying that epic jumps are epic jumps and cool track elements are cool track elements, and there are things that would be awesome in a game, or in a movie, and it would be a shame to not include those "if they involve more luck than skill" by your words.
Yes, you never said those things. I said that hollywood tricks are the main thing of a Hollywood movie because they work there. They do stunts where even one thing would slightly wrong and whole thing is busted. Thing is... it's all set up. They don't have to bother with them being repetitive or with random things happening. Racing games on the other hand do have to deal with those bits. Which is why things that are cool and/or epic in a movie are not guaranteed to be cool and/or epic in a game.
Tathendal wrote:I don't get what Dark Souls has to do with this, and I don't get what is a well known fact in gaming industry. The frustration part can be fixed easily e.g. by tweaking the reset spawn point.
Dark Souls = You fail a lot aka die. But there it's always down to players skill, never down to luck. Keyword here "never".
As to you not getting, well, try reading this part again.
Ryu Makkuro wrote:It's not an opinion here, because a piece of gameplay that is not down to skill but quite literally luck and can easily halt your progress massively, results in a frustrating experience.
Again, it's not an opinion because this is a well known fact in the gaming industry.
In other words, any piece of gameplay that locks you from progressing is extremely avoided. They fixed it by removing the gap, but keeping the jump. So you still have a jump, but no more of the gap. That fix works for me perfectly.
Tathendal wrote:By your posts I assume you want GRIP to be some sort of supercompetitive racing game by eliminating all little bits of luck that might effect the outcome, well it is not going to be that in any case as far as I have understood what the game tries to be. Might be that I am wrong though. We disagree about that jump, in your opinion it is frustrating and in mine it is a fun track element. We clearly have different priorities in mind, and we both are not the devs, so we both can state our opinions and the devs will decide what they do. Therefore I won't continue this pointless discussion.
Ok, let's imagine a new player racing on Norvos. He takes the cliff route because it looks cool. Problem is, he's not good with the car, so he spins out/crashes into a wall due to the bumpiness of that section. Then he continues and... falls down into the gap. Resets and... he then has to drive backwards to get enough speed, but on the way back with enough speed there's always the chance he will fail again and not make the jump. Resets and... same thing again.
After something like that a new player (especially nowadays) can get discouraged to a point where he'll post a negative review of the game pointing that the game has gameplay mechanics that lock him from progressing (which is a very valid point), maybe even refund the game. And although I personally wouldn't cry after such a player... losing sale from something like that is to say the least... stupid.
Would it be nice if GRIP had a nice competitive e-sports mode? Yes. Will it happen? Probably not, unless the game goes Free2Play and gets really popular which would allow Devs to actually do those things.
My point here is... I would like the game to be "easy to learn, hard to master", not "seems easy to learn, penalises in all the wrong ways, not really difficult to master". Giving a fair gameplay is more important than a "flashy gameplay". It will keep people playing it for longer, it's more newbie friendly and naturally more competitive side compatible. Games that are sold by their features usually end up being forgotten in a matter of days, while games with great gameplay tend to stay for years.
WROB3L wrote:i really dont get it, and whats with the barriers on the bridge?!
Transport was perfect for what it was. Now this track difficulty level should be changed to very easy instead of easy.
Well, it was normal, so now it should be easy
I call it "Glorified Speedbowl" from now on tbh xD
But I agree on basically everything else, especially the bridge. It allowed for some nice mine manouvers, now you're locked like in... every other racer out there. I understand that railing in Yuri in the valley, but not on that bridge ffs.