Is Dreadtnought actually faster?

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Mik1
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Is Dreadtnought actually faster?

Postby Mik1 » Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:10 am

As a test i drove both cars on transport with medium engine speed and dominator just seems faster topspeed wise.

https://youtu.be/LiFULTC1XtU heres a side by side of driving somewhat similiar with both cars, dunno why the video is dark but least i got 60fps 8-)

EDIT: The devs are too fast at updating, the videos outdated in the same day.
Last edited by Mik1 on Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is Dreadtnought actually faster?

Postby wantfastcars » Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:44 am

The Dreadnaught does top out slightly faster, it's just that it's acceleration curve is so slow that with our current tracks you'll basically never get there.
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Re: Is Dreadtnought actually faster?

Postby Mik1 » Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:14 pm

wantfastcars wrote:The Dreadnaught does top out slightly faster, it's just that it's acceleration curve is so slow that with our current tracks you'll basically never get there.


i assume if there was a track that was just a straight road forward, Dread would win there but yeah i think it deserves a little buff.

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Re: Is Dreadtnought actually faster?

Postby yellowquiet » Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:49 pm

The dreadnought is too slow at acceleration and turns too slow to be a good car right now. It's just a handicap. Needs a higher acceleration at higher speeds.
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Re: Is Dreadtnought actually faster?

Postby Roq » Sat Mar 12, 2016 4:54 pm

I find the heavier handling of the Dreadnought allows for much better control at high speed. I can win consistently with the tank, but if others are preferring the Dominator, then cool. Nice that there's good variance - should make for some good races once multi-play is in. Can't wait to see what the light and speedy vehicle will add.

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Re: Is Dreadtnought actually faster?

Postby Ryu Makkuro » Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:38 pm

Highest top speed I reached with Dominator so far was 763km/h. Dreadnought on the other hand... 732km/h. This is with Turbo engaged naturally. Without turbo Dominator is more likely to lose speed on the high-end section than Dreadnought but at the same time it will recover that speed faster...

Definitely some re-balancing has to be done as Dreadnought is simply too slow to be competitive in any way. Even on Transport it's slower than Dominator.
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Re: Is Dreadtnought actually faster?

Postby RuskiTalib3003 » Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:48 pm

Speed cap is just a tiny bit higher, add an extremly slow acceleration when compared to Dominator and it's barely noticeable.
I've really noticed it the moment I've popped the turbo on both for a comparsion.
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Re: Is Dreadtnought actually faster?

Postby Roq » Sun Mar 13, 2016 6:43 am

Ok, so for those guys that keep saying the Dreadnought can't compete:

https://youtu.be/r2kVrnqKHMc

Not only am I leading by the end of the 4th (standard game length), but I stay there. The times at the end speak for themselves and as you can see, this was by no means a perfect race. i still hit stuff and got hit by other cars, not to mention one glitch-spin out due to clipping.

I really don't understand people saying the Tank is useless.

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Re: Is Dreadtnought actually faster?

Postby Mik1 » Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:23 am

Roq wrote:Ok, so for those guys that keep saying the Dreadnought can't compete:

https://youtu.be/r2kVrnqKHMc

Not only am I leading by the end of the 4th (standard game length), but I stay there. The times at the end speak for themselves and as you can see, this was by no means a perfect race. i still hit stuff and got hit by other cars, not to mention one glitch-spin out due to clipping.

I really don't understand people saying the Tank is useless.


Dont get me wrong, i love the new car but if you had 2 equally good players using both cars Dreadnought would propably have disadvantage.

It would propably be easier to tell once multiplayer is implemented. I havent noticed if theres changes to the car between 1.0.8 private and public yet.

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Re: Is Dreadtnought actually faster?

Postby TheOnLY » Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:01 am

I easily win with the Dreadnought too. But it is the same with the Dominator. The AI simply isn't on par yet. Winning with dreadnought does not make it a balanced car. It is underwhelminglly slow compared to the Dominaor, especially in lower engine speeds.

Mik1 wrote:Dont get me wrong, i love the new car but if you had 2 equally good players using both cars Dreadnought would propably have disadvantage.

It would be for sure. Also keep in mind that Players will use pickups more effectively putting the dreadnought in a further disadvantage because they usually slow you down or even make you crash. Getting hit or crashing is more punishing with the Dreadnought.

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Re: Is Dreadtnought actually faster?

Postby Roq » Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:33 am

Talking about what other players may or may not do once multi-play goes in is redundant and hypothetical at this point. Also, it's not useful feedback to say that the Dreadnought can't compete (which I can consistently demonstrate that it can) but then state it can, but probably wont be able to against real players. Which is it? Is it actually bad now, or do you just think it will be later? This line of reasoning leads me to think that certain players just aren't used to the difference of the Tank and want it tuned to be more like what they are familiar with. Not sound reasoning to my mind.

If you prefer the Dominator, that's awesome, that's the car for you. If you just want the new hotness, but don't like it's handling, I can only suggest more practice or stick with the driving style that suits you more.

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Re: Is Dreadtnought actually faster?

Postby Django » Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:05 am

Roq wrote:Ok, so for those guys that keep saying the Dreadnought can't compete:

https://youtu.be/r2kVrnqKHMc

Not only am I leading by the end of the 4th (standard game length), but I stay there. The times at the end speak for themselves and as you can see, this was by no means a perfect race. i still hit stuff and got hit by other cars, not to mention one glitch-spin out due to clipping.

I really don't understand people saying the Tank is useless.


Ok seems like it has not that much of a disadvantage like i thought. Still not sure if the tank is unbalanced or just not beginner friendly.

But on a sidenote your race is maybe not perfect but still pretty damn good.

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Re: Is Dreadtnought actually faster?

Postby wantfastcars » Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:54 pm

The issue isn't that it can't compete. The issue is that one of the Dreadnaught's pros over the Dominator is supposed to be the higher top speed, but due to the much lower acceleration and much wider turning radius, you rarely (if ever) get to demonstrate said higher top speed. What it's supposed to be is that the Dreadnaught favors cruising speed and stability, while the Dominator favors acceleration and agility. The thing is, with how much dramatically lower the Dreadnaught's acceleration curve is (and with how much you have to slow down to take turns), without a really long straight line, it doesn't get to show it's higher top speed, so it's only real advantage at the moment is being a hell of a lot more stable.

In short, the Dreadnaught currently accelerates too slowly to show off it's current "advantage" of top-end speed.
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Re: Is Dreadtnought actually faster?

Postby Vorta » Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:35 pm

It seems that it depends on the player's driving style whether he'll achieve better results with Dominator or the Dreadnought. I've recorded my first ever race with the Dreadnought, right after the update came out and it went way better than I expected. I absolutely loved it. I also don't see one car having major disadvantages to the other. Apart from those back vents on the Dreadnought, damn they're ugly. :mrgreen:

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Re: Is Dreadtnought actually faster?

Postby Ryu Makkuro » Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:00 pm

Roq wrote:Talking about what other players may or may not do once multi-play goes in is redundant and hypothetical at this point. Also, it's not useful feedback to say that the Dreadnought can't compete (which I can consistently demonstrate that it can) but then state it can, but probably wont be able to against real players. Which is it? Is it actually bad now, or do you just think it will be later? This line of reasoning leads me to think that certain players just aren't used to the difference of the Tank and want it tuned to be more like what they are familiar with. Not sound reasoning to my mind.

If you prefer the Dominator, that's awesome, that's the car for you. If you just want the new hotness, but don't like it's handling, I can only suggest more practice or stick with the driving style that suits you more.

Sorry, but that is one big pile of BS right there.
First of all, when you're talking about cars performance and whether it can compete or not, you DO NOT include driver skill. Driver doesn't change how well the car accelerates, corners and what speed it can reach. Not even Stig. In other words, your result in a race doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is the direct comparison between the performance of the said cars.

Let me put it this way. Just because someone beat a GT3 spec car in a stock Fiat Panda on a race track doesn't make those cars competitive against each others.

Dominator has a massive advantage over Dreadnought in terms of cornering speed and acceleration. With the latest patch Dreadnought has a lot less issues accelerating and maintaining a speed of over 500km/h (Wild engine speed) but it still takes it ages to get there and it's still slow through the corners, while the top speed difference shows maybe on one or two points on the Transport map... and we're talking a very small difference just before the corner, not through an entire section etc.

Right now Dominator quite literally dominates over Dreadnought. This wouldn't be much of an issue on Yuri Industrial, which is a more technical and twisty track, but Transport is where Dreadnought should have the edge. Consistent clean lap times, be it with or without using Turbo show that Dominator is way ahead of Dreadnought.

And just to make it plain. I really like Dreadnought, I enjoy the heavier steering and that top-end power it has (which Dominator lacks as it struggles at 500km/h), but it simply takes too long to get to that point to make it any competitive when put against Dominator. Performance wise Dreadnought is simply not on par with Dominator. It has nothing to do with the cars handling characteristics which are NOT a performance value. And performance of it is the topic at hand here, not handling.
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Re: Is Dreadtnought actually faster?

Postby taovakama » Wed Mar 16, 2016 8:28 pm

I don't think its fair to judge the Dreadnaught just yet. I'm sure when the game gets nearer to its finished state (specially the car v car collisions part in this case), the Dreadtnought will be a lot heavier so in addition to more stable ride it would just blast trough any crashed / standing / slow moving lighter cars in the way (like the Dominator) with no problem. In addition im guessing it will be a lot more resilient to incoming damage from weapons, so it will be a case of really easy to drive, not the fastest but very punishing (though hard) to crash type of vehicle.
(On a side note, I find it a loooot more consistent to drive than the Dominator with the keyboard at least)

As for now, it probably is outmatched by the Dominator for pure lap times though only because the things that would make the Dread's most competitive (with the exeption of its top speed) are just not developed yet.

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Re: Is Dreadtnought actually faster?

Postby Ryu Makkuro » Thu Mar 17, 2016 7:29 pm

After the patch that was deployed today (17.03.2016), I felt like Dreadnought had a bit more top-end power. So I did a comparison on the Transport track, to see if there's some improvement.

Comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnBBStWKihg

Dreadnought run only: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN9xf-iRuMY

Dominator run only: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bgytAjxH54


I want to point out the second open space, that nasty right corner. Dominator due to lightness jumps very easily there, much more than Dreadnought which results in a lot less speed since right now the game drastically reduces the speed whenever the contact with ground is lost. If it weren't for that, the difference would be about 0,5s, maybe less. And I'm not talking about bad landing/bounciness. Pure loss of speed when in mid-air.

In short, there's an improvement. Very good one to that, but still not close enough. I think Dreadnought should have a bit more top-end "oompf". Not earlier, just a few more unicorn farts when the VTEC kicks in xD And possibly top speed increased by 10km/h. That IMO would make it a lot better and give it an edge on the high speed sections.
To make it plain, Transport is a high speed track, therefore it's only natural that Dreadnought should've a lead of over 1s on a lap compared to other cars/classes. If you put it on Alhatra or Industrial, it will be slower than Dominator even with the buff I mentioned. I assume the issue with losing speed on jumps is temporary one and won't be present in the finalised version of the physics.
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Re: Is Dreadtnought actually faster?

Postby Mik1 » Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:09 am

Yeah i feel like dreadnoughts better in recent patches, wasnt sure if that was just my imagination.
Maybe if dreadnought had more weight it would stick to the ground more in small bumps/downhills and and that would help keeping up the speed.
The downhill before the drop on transport is always akward for me in high speeds since i get airborne on that small downhill.


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