Car forward power - Wheels or Jet engine ?

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dwbmb
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Car forward power - Wheels or Jet engine ?

Postby dwbmb » Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:22 am

I am really confused about what is giving the car forward power - wheels or that jet engine or what is it? You can accelerate mid-air - car is powered by jet engine. You are stuck at start with wheels spinning on place - car is power by wheels (overpowered I guess). You are stuck on a slope wall - nothing moves, car is not powered at all. Jet engine is visually reacting to pressing gas button - car is powered by jet engine. Car is changing gear during accelerating - car is powered by wheels. Car flips upside down - car is powered by jet engine because any transmission would blow up changing direction of wheel rotation that fast.

You should really make your mind, decide and make clear how the car is pushed forward.

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Re: What is the vehicle behavior that most bothers you (collisions, handling, etc)? Please show us in this thread!

Postby potterman28wxcv » Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:13 pm

The post above was originally in the Vehicle Behaviour poll, but I split it into a new topic since it's more related to the lore / physics explanation rather than the actual car behaviour.

dwbmb wrote:I am really confused about what is giving the car forward power - wheels or that jet engine or what is it? You can accelerate mid-air - car is powered by jet engine. You are stuck at start with wheels spinning on place - car is power by wheels (overpowered I guess). You are stuck on a slope wall - nothing moves, car is not powered at all. Jet engine is visually reacting to pressing gas button - car is powered by jet engine. Car is changing gear during accelerating - car is powered by wheels. Car flips upside down - car is powered by jet engine because any transmission would blow up changing direction of wheel rotation that fast.

You should really make your mind, decide and make clear how the car is pushed forward.

Or you can assume that the car is powered by both by the jet and the wheels.
I see nothing wrong with that.

When you're stuck on a slope wall, nothing moves because the jet is not strong enough to overtake gravity.
Same thing for when you're stuck at the start - even though you have a jet, you still have the inertia mass to get going.

dwbmb wrote:Car flips upside down - car is powered by jet engine because any transmission would blow up changing direction of wheel rotation that fast

That, or you could also suppose the transmission is not a normal transmission, but is some kind of special mechanism to allow changing direction smoothly.
There was a discussion about that somewhere - just can't find it
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Re: Car forward power - Wheels or Jet engine ?

Postby VooDooQky » Tue Apr 26, 2016 2:22 pm

dwbmb wrote:I am really confused about what is giving the car forward power - wheels or that jet engine or what is it? You can accelerate mid-air - car is powered by jet engine. You are stuck at start with wheels spinning on place - car is power by wheels (overpowered I guess). You are stuck on a slope wall - nothing moves, car is not powered at all. Jet engine is visually reacting to pressing gas button - car is powered by jet engine. Car is changing gear during accelerating - car is powered by wheels. Car flips upside down - car is powered by jet engine because any transmission would blow up changing direction of wheel rotation that fast.

You should really make your mind, decide and make clear how the car is pushed forward.


Well, let's say that everyday mechanics couldn't really be applicated to GRIP's cars. Being stuck on slopes are still under tweaking. The cars featured here might have been a one of a kind dual engine powered stuff, where the main engine is under the hood somewhere, being in contact with the wheels, and the jet propulsion is just an assistant stuff in case you get airborne, to help you keeping or bolstering the momentum which you left ground with. IMHO.

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Re: What is the vehicle behavior that most bothers you (collisions, handling, etc)? Please show us in this thread!

Postby dwbmb » Tue Apr 26, 2016 2:29 pm

potterman28wxcv wrote:Or you can assume that the car is powered by both by the jet and the wheels.
I see nothing wrong with that.

The fact is (in 1.0.9.1) that not both, but mostly only one of them are currently powering the car

potterman28wxcv wrote:When you're stuck on a slope wall, nothing moves because the jet is not strong enough to overtake gravity.
Same thing for when you're stuck at the start - even though you have a jet, you still have the inertia mass to get going.

(1) When stuck on wall, jet may be not strong enough, but wheels are not active at all, they are just glued to the vehicle, not spinning.
(2)Here is short video from start - https://youtu.be/CvO852t0rEA no jet at all, only wheels, the right opposite to (1) above.

potterman28wxcv wrote:That, or you could also suppose the transmission is not a normal transmission, but is some kind of special mechanism to allow changing direction smoothly.
There was a discussion about that somewhere - just can't find it

OR, you don't have any transmission, because you car is may be powered by jet engine :D

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Re: Car forward power - Wheels or Jet engine ?

Postby Queadah » Tue Apr 26, 2016 2:50 pm

Huh, can't find that thread either :/
It said basically transmission is not mechanic but magnetic (the blue glow you see behind the tyres) meaning the wheels' axis spin free.

During a gyroscopic "contactless" reversal of the car, magnetic field is reversed which, coupled with the cars' forward momentum, overcomes wheels' inertia and switches direction of rotation.

This has perfect scientific plausibility without being far fetched : type "electric brushless motor" on google. Miniatures use them. Heck, even your washing-machine might use this electromagnetic tech. No mechanical transmission.

Car's powered by both "wheels" and jet engine. Period ;)

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Re: Car forward power - Wheels or Jet engine ?

Postby Queadah » Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:36 pm

Btw, good luck explaining how you can drive backwards on jet engine alone lol.

Aircraft still need to be towed for "pushback"

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Re: Car forward power - Wheels or Jet engine ?

Postby yellowquiet » Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:16 pm

In a previous thread I gave a good explanation on how the cars work. Future stuff happens and it works.
I didn't even know what was in the splatter pack before I bought it.

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Re: Car forward power - Wheels or Jet engine ?

Postby Queadah » Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:35 pm

yellowquiet wrote:In a previous thread I gave a good explanation on how the cars work. Future stuff happens and it works.

Amen

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Re: What is the vehicle behavior that most bothers you (collisions, handling, etc)? Please show us in this thread!

Postby potterman28wxcv » Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:54 am

dwbmb wrote:(1) When stuck on wall, jet may be not strong enough, but wheels are not active at all, they are just glued to the vehicle, not spinning.

Yeah I agree this is not quite logical.

dwbmb wrote:(2)Here is short video from start - https://youtu.be/CvO852t0rEA no jet at all, only wheels, the right opposite to (1) above.

Well maybe the Jet takes some time to power. You know, a bit like a Diesel engine but Jet version :D

Or maybe it needs a good amount of oxygen to function, thus it only activates above certain speed.

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Re: Car forward power - Wheels or Jet engine ?

Postby dwbmb » Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:32 am

Yeah, you guys focused on transmission issue. You explained, makes totally sense to me, thanks.
But what is really driving me crazy is - and it is in the name of this topic - what potterman28wxcv said in the post above. That is why i posted it in the "Vehicle behavior" topic.

BTW jet engine should push you back when you are driving just behind another vehicle, which is not happening.

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Re: Car forward power - Wheels or Jet engine ?

Postby Queadah » Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:49 am

My apologies if I sounded like a prick or anything, this community is better than that :)

Thing is, GRIP is meant to be arcarde. The simulation part goes only so far and I think we accept/want this in our expectations of the game.

The physics still hold explainable to a high degree for a futuristic racer imo

Edit : your "issue" may be partially solved with the start boost if implemented

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Re: Car forward power - Wheels or Jet engine ?

Postby Jetgaze » Thu May 05, 2016 11:04 am

It looks like wheels are not even connected to car. There is that "blue plasma" field that holds wheels there. It also serves as suspension... And i guess it prevents gearbox issues by releasing wheel-to-gearbox connection for a moment....

And thrusters are used as exaust....and maybe engine power is used to rotate jet turbine too...so yeah. Its kinda logical they would react.

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Re: Car forward power - Wheels or Jet engine ?

Postby KazzyMac » Tue May 10, 2016 8:07 pm

Jetgaze wrote:It looks like wheels are not even connected to car. There is that "blue plasma" field that holds wheels there. It also serves as suspension... And i guess it prevents gearbox issues by releasing wheel-to-gearbox connection for a moment....

And thrusters are used as exaust....and maybe engine power is used to rotate jet turbine too...so yeah. Its kinda logical they would react.


The game's lore describes the cars' suspension as being an advanced, magnetic-based suspension system. The cars' wheels are supported by super-powerful magnets, basically, because I'm pretty sure that a 7-ton tank driving at 500km/h would break any modern suspension the moment it went over a bump. :P

To be a killjoy though, the wheels in-game are currently only visual and collision only; the cars are propelled entirely by the jet thrusters. That's going to change at some point down the line, especially since the lack of traction/torque at low speed is a problem on non-flat surfaces ;)
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Re: Car forward power - Wheels or Jet engine ?

Postby WROB3L » Tue May 17, 2016 7:27 am

KazzyMac wrote:
To be a killjoy though, the wheels in-game are currently only visual and collision only; the cars are propelled entirely by the jet thrusters. That's going to change at some point down the line, especially since the lack of traction/torque at low speed is a problem on non-flat surfaces ;)


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Re: Car forward power - Wheels or Jet engine ?

Postby KazzyMac » Sat May 21, 2016 3:53 pm

WROB3L wrote:
KazzyMac wrote:
To be a killjoy though, the wheels in-game are currently only visual and collision only; the cars are propelled entirely by the jet thrusters. That's going to change at some point down the line, especially since the lack of traction/torque at low speed is a problem on non-flat surfaces ;)


W8 wat. How do you know that dude?

Pretty sure it was mentioned somewhere on the forum from Rob or Chris.
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Re: Car forward power - Wheels or Jet engine ?

Postby TheOnLY » Sat May 21, 2016 4:36 pm

Why do the wheels of the dreadnought spin at the start then ?:P (and you don't have grip when they do)

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Re: Car forward power - Wheels or Jet engine ?

Postby KazzyMac » Tue May 24, 2016 7:29 am

TheOnLY wrote:Why do the wheels of the dreadnought spin at the start then ?:P (and you don't have grip when they do)

Visual reference, to let you see that the car is trying to accelerate? :P
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Re: Car forward power - Wheels or Jet engine ?

Postby Ryu Makkuro » Sun May 29, 2016 10:44 am

KazzyMac wrote:
TheOnLY wrote:Why do the wheels of the dreadnought spin at the start then ?:P (and you don't have grip when they do)

Visual reference, to let you see that the car is trying to accelerate? :P

I'd personally prefer a gigantic amount of smoke coming from the engines rather than from wheels spinning pointlessly when they shouldn't. With jet power there's no wheel spin at launch, so it does look kind of... weird to say the least.
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Re: Car forward power - Wheels or Jet engine ?

Postby potterman28wxcv » Mon May 30, 2016 5:56 pm

Just pasting a quote from the private 1.0.10 topic :
Ryu Makkuro wrote:
Skid wrote:
Ryu Makkuro wrote:- I meant to mention that before but... gears on a jet powered car? What for?

The jet engine probably converts a large amount of it's power to drive the wheels to pull the car around a turn rather then try and push it as that will provide better traction and a better turning circle

Well, last time I checked, if you don't have a differential and wheels can simply turn on their own, you'll have best possible cornering performance that way. If you have a differential (which is what is required for your idea to work) then you're effectively having a worse turning circle. Straight line traction indeed does improve with the differential, but at the same time you need more traction because the movement comes from tires, which in the end means you actually have worse traction. There's a reason why the fastest drag machines use jet engines. No wheel spin, best possible traction of the line in any situation. You're being pushed from behind the car, not from "below it".

Given that the cars are capable of driving on ceiling, that means they have enough downforce to offset their weight and then some more. That downforce in result is what helps the car turn, making the jet thrust function as the only source of speed and allowing the wheels to be purely for cornering, rather than having to do both cornering and accelerating at the same time as in a situation where acceleration comes from the wheels.

And most importantly, the cars are accelerating due to the jet thrust, not wheels. Chris confirmed this some time ago if I recall correctly.


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Re: Car forward power - Wheels or Jet engine ?

Postby Sigrid » Tue May 31, 2016 9:35 am

Ryu Makkuro wrote:(...) wheels spinning pointlessly when they shouldn't. With jet power there's no wheel spin at launch, so it does look kind of... weird to say the least.

I cannot agree more!


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