Wheels spinning FPS?

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Whiplash
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Wheels spinning FPS?

Postby Whiplash » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:52 pm

I've just seen the latest version (1.2.0) and, damn, the game really looks really great already! :shock:
But I have one weird observation whole this time about the car wheels... (and, yes, feel free to call me a weirdo :roll: )... I feel like the wheels' spinning is somehow too "slow" and in a way like it's done in a way lower frame per second than the rest of the environment. It's less noticeable with slick tyres, though - but it's the most noticeable when the cam is close to wheels (in those after the finish moments), but in general too.
I believe that the cars would be much more appealing to eyes if the wheels spinning could look more "smooth" - an extra motion blur on wheels might be a solution, but I guess Chris will know better (unless he simply threats this observation as a bulls***).

Also, I'd like you to consider some of the future cars with rocket launchers placed on rims. Imagine 4 rockets getting out of 4 rims. :twisted:
Last edited by Whiplash on Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

Whiplash
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Re: Wheels spinning FPS?

Postby Whiplash » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:16 am

Ok, I just did some investigation and I'm glad I wasn't actually hallucinating - but I guess I described it wrong. Seems it has nothing to do with fps, but with "actual" wheel spinning. Grip's wheels don't spin fast enough - that's my theory from now on. :ugeek:

Let me show you some examples... First, let's check The Crew game. I'd say it has the same wheel spinning style as Grip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdB1VRDLpyk

But, now check the Forza Horizon 3:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Gqr1p_jGrQ

That's what I was talking about. Forza's wheels spinning is what I'd like to see on Grip's cars. When car wheels are spinning insanely fast - the wheel becomes just "one flat image" to human eye, sending information to his brain: quote: "Holly f*ck!". :P If there are any tyre traceries, each becomes just a single vertical line. It's even more effective combined with high pitched engine sound (an idea could be that this effect appears only when turbo is activated). I'm not sure how it's done in Forza and I wonder how it would look like in case we do in-game slow motion there.

Btw, here are some examples from reality:
1. Most of cars' wheels on this video look like Grip's, but check out the guy on 1:05. He's the only one who produces that "one flat image" effect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCS8Ya3bpqc

2. Here's an extreme RC car:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ5HHR9X5nw

3. And look, even these two stupid kids manage to produce that effect as soon as they speed up a bit on straights (1:32 and 1:50)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrLFpX_LilI

4. 3. Finally, F1 - intermedium tyres:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEW_9A0z1TU
Focus also on that inside letters of the manufacturer name - it simply becomes one single line. And, if you analyze the current F1 2016 game, you will notice that it also needs a bit more spinning speed effect there, cause you can hardly see one single smooth line in the game, which is common in real life.
Real life 2016:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9E8N6yXUig
Game 2016:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP29BSkO2JA

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Chris_CE
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Re: Wheels spinning FPS?

Postby Chris_CE » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:12 pm

I think it comes down to motion blur not being great in the engine. Not much we can do about that without injecting custom code, which is needless to say, not easy

The wheels certainly move at the right speed, AFAIK
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Whiplash
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Re: Wheels spinning FPS?

Postby Whiplash » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:58 pm

Chris_CE wrote:I think it comes down to motion blur not being great in the engine.

Yeah, motion blur is obviously not the way to produce that "one flat image" effect. It would be good to find out what tricks Forza Horizon 3 used there.

Chris_CE wrote:The wheels certainly move at the right speed, AFAIK

I believe so. But I believe even more that wheels spin at the right speed in real life too. ;) And in real life we still see that effect produced very commonly - even at lover speeds. And, yeah, I admit this is kinda bizarre discussion, but I really feel that such effect could give some extra "holly molly" sensation to a player, that's all. Maybe Rob could figure out a solution - but even if he doesn't, the world won't brake down.

atv_123
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Re: Wheels spinning FPS?

Postby atv_123 » Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:19 pm

In Gran Turismo 3 and 4, the way they used to do it was to just swap models at a particular speed. One detailed model with the fully modeled rim and nice textures, and one low detail model with a semi clear texture that just swaps in when a certain wheel speed is attained. No blur was used but the effect worked rather well. Little choppy during the transition point, but rather effective with minimal resources.

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Re: Wheels spinning FPS?

Postby Whiplash » Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:46 am

Yep, and I remember that old game "Juiced" with such effect (not with a good transition, though). And that's probably how they do it in recent games too, but they just pay more attention to that transition moment. It's really nicely done in iRacing (in my opinion their tyres models look the most realistic compared to all the other games). And, I believe it also has a beneficial effect on overall game's fluidity (fps).
And here is a nice video with examples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ0zb2U3mok
In a very slow curve, by using pause you can almost read nicely what's written on the tyres (1:40). But when slow motion is done in a very fast straight, you can see that the model is blurred and you can't read letters even if you press pause (2:35).

atv_123
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Re: Wheels spinning FPS?

Postby atv_123 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:40 pm

One thing that would also cause what you're describing is if the speed of the wheels starts to sync up with the FPS of the screen (or whatever your computer is running at at the time). Say, if your computer is running the game at about 60FPS and you are going a speed that makes the tires turn at 60 revs per second (your moving pretty quick at this state) your tires would be in perfect sync with your computer and they would appear as to not be moving at all. Go slightly slower and they would appear to be rolling backwards!

A perfect example can be seen here as the helicopter blades and the camera were in perfect sync.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yr3ngmRuGUc

Whiplash
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Re: Wheels spinning FPS?

Postby Whiplash » Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:03 pm

Holly cow, that helicopter. xD And yeah, that way of solving this sounds like more natural and intuitive, and less "cheating".
And there is a nice explanation video of it, which you probably also watched:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYQAKwCxScc

I'm just not sure if this could be totally the same trick for a video game, because its word isn't presented the same way as that one in front of a digital camera.
Last edited by Whiplash on Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Tathendal
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Re: Wheels spinning FPS?

Postby Tathendal » Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:04 pm

atv_123 wrote:A perfect example can be seen here as the helicopter blades and the camera were in perfect sync.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yr3ngmRuGUc

That is such cool wtf :O

atv_123 wrote:Go slightly slower and they would appear to be rolling backwards!

This would actually be nice and look real cool since it is a real phenomenon, also seen in some other games!

Ponel
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Re: Wheels spinning FPS?

Postby Ponel » Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:31 pm

I have a question, but I do not know if it is worthwhile to put a separate thread on it. Does the Wheels affect the steering, or are they just cosmetic? Which wheels to buy? I buy Rocket League Wheels on this site and it's just cosmetic in rl https://odealo.com/games/rocket-league so if you got some nice rocket league wheels, pls tell me about this (and about crates too)
Last edited by Ponel on Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Broscar
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Re: Wheels spinning FPS?

Postby Broscar » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:15 pm

Hey Ponel. All of the current customization is purely cosmetic. Pick whatever tyre you want :)


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