Lets talk about the Leader Missile

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Re: Some thoughts about the "Assassin"

Postby KazzyMac » Sat Sep 19, 2015 8:35 pm

Yrch wrote:imo one of the most important thing about the assassin is that its pretty hard to predict when it will arive at the leader.
in RC blocking a Leader Rocket was very hard when going into a turn while it was super easy to block on a straight so making it faster when fired from further behind would still keep it unpredictable while also increasing it effect. i remember times where it took multiple Laps for a rocket to hit the Leader wich was very fruststraiting when far behind.

another idea that just came up.
its a well known tactic to go to a full stop and let others overtake you to shake off a leader.
maybe adding a small AE effeckt could prevent that or at least make it more risky to do while also helping those further behind.


I thought it did have an AoE on the explosion? I don't think the radius of most of the explosions on Rollcage were very big though, except for exploding scenery (billboards, lights), or it could just be that in online games player cars are usually never close-enough for the AoE to hit more than the intended target?
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Re: Some thoughts about the "Assassin"

Postby potterman28wxcv » Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:27 am

KazzyMac wrote:
Yrch wrote:imo one of the most important thing about the assassin is that its pretty hard to predict when it will arive at the leader.
in RC blocking a Leader Rocket was very hard when going into a turn while it was super easy to block on a straight so making it faster when fired from further behind would still keep it unpredictable while also increasing it effect. i remember times where it took multiple Laps for a rocket to hit the Leader wich was very fruststraiting when far behind.

another idea that just came up.
its a well known tactic to go to a full stop and let others overtake you to shake off a leader.
maybe adding a small AE effeckt could prevent that or at least make it more risky to do while also helping those further behind.


I thought it did have an AoE on the explosion? I don't think the radius of most of the explosions on Rollcage were very big though, except for exploding scenery (billboards, lights), or it could just be that in online games player cars are usually never close-enough for the AoE to hit more than the intended target?

I can confirm there is an AoE ; I have more than once been close to a car being hit by the leader missile, and I was also sent in the air (not as much as the hit car though).

It is small, but it is there.
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Re: Some thoughts about the "Assassin"

Postby Chris_CE » Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:14 pm

AOE sounds good. It's a big ass missile so it should have a big ass explosion.

We'll have to tweak the speed and see what works best for gameplay. You guys will no doubt help with that ;)
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Re: Some thoughts about the "Assassin"

Postby maniamaster » Mon Feb 08, 2016 3:49 pm

@Necro: Yeah, that's the plan with the assassin, it just hasn't been done yet. Won't be easy, with how smart and more realistic the missiles are now. In rollcage the leader just flipped around, didn't even turn. That would look weird in GRIP


As you mentioned the problem with turning chris, I have an idea how you could make it look less awkward.
How about after the missile has rushed passed you, it flings itself up a bit, shutting down its boosters (maybe with visible "fins" coming out of it and making some targeting sound) and when it's oriented again, it restarts its boosters and rushes straight to you (with extra explosive rocket propulsion just for good measure).

It's a minor detail and probably a lot of work, especially when trying to figure out how it should behave in thin tunnels, but I find the thought of it quite nice.

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Re: Some thoughts about the "Assassin"

Postby tjgcrush » Mon Feb 08, 2016 7:09 pm

Chris_CE wrote:AOE sounds good. It's a big ass missile so it should have a big ass explosion.

We'll have to tweak the speed and see what works best for gameplay. You guys will no doubt help with that ;)


there already is AOE i was driving next to a guy that had the missile locked onto him and we both flew off lol
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Re: Some thoughts about the "Assassin"

Postby masteraran » Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:17 pm

Tiakh wrote:The how about reducing the chance of getting the assassin on last place? I mean beeing on the last place the assassin is one of the more useless weopons you can get. You could even go with that the first place and the last place can´t get the assassin at all, but maybe thats too much.

I thought exactly the same thing. Their is a real lake of assist item to help the last runner climbing the race ladder and i never had the impress the assassin can help me wining. It just help the first players to win easyer.

My second thought about this item is about his f*cking ubiquity. It's exactly like playing mario kart and beeing targeted by a blue shell every 5 seconds. It drive me nuts !
I spent 7 hours on this game and drive may be 5 hours on Industrial. Seriously ! 5 hours and I only won 1 time because I never managed to stay at the first place more than 15 secondes. Their is just to much of this assasin missile ! Honnestly, I thought the only way to win during a competition was to be lucky and not beeing skilled.
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Re: Some thoughts about the "Assassin"

Postby Tiakh » Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:18 am

masteraran wrote:
Tiakh wrote:The how about reducing the chance of getting the assassin on last place? I mean beeing on the last place the assassin is one of the more useless weopons you can get. You could even go with that the first place and the last place can´t get the assassin at all, but maybe thats too much.

I thought exactly the same thing. Their is a real lake of assist item to help the last runner climbing the race ladder and i never had the impress the assassin can help me wining. It just help the first players to win easyer.

My second thought about this item is about his f*cking ubiquity. It's exactly like playing mario kart and beeing targeted by a blue shell every 5 seconds. It drive me nuts !
I spent 7 hours on this game and drive may be 5 hours on Industrial. Seriously ! 5 hours and I only won 1 time because I never managed to stay at the first place more than 15 secondes. Their is just to much of this assasin missile ! Honnestly, I thought the only way to win during a competition was to be lucky and not beeing skilled.

On which speed level and on which AI difficulty are you playing on? (and with catch up on or off?) Cause i dont have that much of a problem with staying first. Normally you can block most of the assassin with the aegis (shield).
Also industrial is the most difficult of all tracks (though it´s the most fun playing on it).

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Re: Some thoughts about the "Assassin"

Postby masteraran » Fri Feb 12, 2016 3:55 pm

Tiakh wrote:
masteraran wrote:
Tiakh wrote:The how about reducing the chance of getting the assassin on last place? I mean beeing on the last place the assassin is one of the more useless weopons you can get. You could even go with that the first place and the last place can´t get the assassin at all, but maybe thats too much.

I thought exactly the same thing. Their is a real lake of assist item to help the last runner climbing the race ladder and i never had the impress the assassin can help me wining. It just help the first players to win easyer.

My second thought about this item is about his f*cking ubiquity. It's exactly like playing mario kart and beeing targeted by a blue shell every 5 seconds. It drive me nuts !
I spent 7 hours on this game and drive may be 5 hours on Industrial. Seriously ! 5 hours and I only won 1 time because I never managed to stay at the first place more than 15 secondes. Their is just to much of this assasin missile ! Honnestly, I thought the only way to win during a competition was to be lucky and not beeing skilled.

On which speed level and on which AI difficulty are you playing on? (and with catch up on or off?) Cause i dont have that much of a problem with staying first. Normally you can block most of the assassin with the aegis (shield).
Also industrial is the most difficult of all tracks (though it´s the most fun playing on it).


I'm used to play hard difficulty on low speed level during industrial race and wild speed during the other races.
Usually, i'm wearing the shield, wich is nice, but I don't think beeing targeted by 3 assassin missile at the same time is a very nice way to play. It happens oftener than I want to admit and I feel very frustrated when it occurs. That's why I said this. Actually, beeing lucky is too important to win a race.
Just imagine yourself playing online and beeing targeted all the time. That's so unfair !
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Re: Some thoughts about the "Assassin"

Postby Chris_CE » Fri Feb 12, 2016 7:32 pm

maniamaster wrote:As you mentioned the problem with turning chris, I have an idea how you could make it look less awkward.
How about after the missile has rushed passed you, it flings itself up a bit, shutting down its boosters (maybe with visible "fins" coming out of it and making some targeting sound) and when it's oriented again, it restarts its boosters and rushes straight to you (with extra explosive rocket propulsion just for good measure).

It's a minor detail and probably a lot of work, especially when trying to figure out how it should behave in thin tunnels, but I find the thought of it quite nice.

Yeah Rob will figure out a solution. He's set on making it look good

masteraran wrote:I thought exactly the same thing. Their is a real lake of assist item to help the last runner climbing the race ladder and i never had the impress the assassin can help me wining. It just help the first players to win easyer.

My second thought about this item is about his f*cking ubiquity. It's exactly like playing mario kart and beeing targeted by a blue shell every 5 seconds. It drive me nuts !
I spent 7 hours on this game and drive may be 5 hours on Industrial. Seriously ! 5 hours and I only won 1 time because I never managed to stay at the first place more than 15 secondes. Their is just to much of this assasin missile ! Honnestly, I thought the only way to win during a competition was to be lucky and not beeing skilled.

The EMP will help players who are in lower positions, as it will affect everyone.

As for being hit by so many assassins, it seems you have bad luck, as some people say they don't get hit by assassins enough.

We still have a lot of balancing to do though, so it will take time before it's perfect
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Re: Some thoughts about the "Assassin"

Postby Vorta » Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:52 pm

I've got a question about Assassin which I've wanted to ask for quite a while. The missile targets and hits the first player directly. More often than it should, it ends up giving the first player some handy boost. If the assassin was behaving in a way to come close to the player, on one of his sides, and then exploding, throwing him and anybody else in vicinity away, it would be much more unpredictable and dangerous. Right now the easy way to avoid getting hit is getting on a wall on the side of a curve. It will either hit the wall right behind you with no effect, or give you a nice boost.

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Re: Some thoughts about the "Assassin"

Postby potterman28wxcv » Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:11 pm

Vorta wrote:I've got a question about Assassin which I've wanted to ask for quite a while. The missile targets and hits the first player directly. More often than it should, it ends up giving the first player some handy boost. If the assassin was behaving in a way to come close to the player, on one of his sides, and then exploding, throwing him and anybody else in vicinity away, it would be much more unpredictable and dangerous. Right now the easy way to avoid getting hit is getting on a wall on the side of a curve. It will either hit the wall right behind you with no effect, or give you a nice boost.

Yeah this is called rocket boosting. You can do this in Rollcage too with Homing missiles ;)

A while ago they were planning on making the assassin go past you before hitting you.. A bit like Rollcage.

Still, they haven't figured out yet how to do this as far as I know. But yes the assassin behaviour is not final.
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Re: Some thoughts about the "Assassin"

Postby Skid » Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:32 pm

I would prefer that the assassin passes you before it hits you like the originals as well, for one it's fun to race the damn thing and have it hovering over head while you keep pace with it, but if you see it coming at your face you have a reasonable chance to dodge it, and if you did that right in the originals you would get a short kick of speed as well. This would mean you could no longer shield against it though, you would have to dodge it or outrun it, which will be good or bad depending on how easy it is to avoid (it should be hard but no so hard that a skilled player couldn't consistently do it).

But to mimic the behaviour of the original games, it would basically need to fly the racing line down whatever path your on or it's on (in other-words follow the track not the player), then pass you by an amount then have it's direction and speed just instantly changed to head towards you, at that point stops tracking and just hit's where-ever you should be if you didn't take evasive action.
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Re: Lets talk about the Leader Missile

Postby agcue » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:38 am

Getting a leader missile while in first place lets you launch an immediate counter if luck (or skill) fails you! I don't mind it. And it needs to pass the leader and knock them back! PLEASE IMPLEMENT THIS... Forward firing weapons can nullify the effect for balance. It is so awesome seeing the leader fly backwards over head as you pass... I never even used to mind being hit by one :) so much fun! so iconic!

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Re: Lets talk about the Leader Missile

Postby Chris_CE » Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:58 pm

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Re: Some thoughts about the "Assassin"

Postby Ryu Makkuro » Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:41 am

Skid wrote:I would prefer that the assassin passes you before it hits you like the originals as well, for one it's fun to race the damn thing and have it hovering over head while you keep pace with it, but if you see it coming at your face you have a reasonable chance to dodge it, and if you did that right in the originals you would get a short kick of speed as well.

I have to agree with this. Even if I'm unable to evade it, I'd really love to see that inevitable blue glow making my day worse :D It's one of the most iconic moments of Rollcage and I truly believe that without it, GRIP will be lacking in the "spiritual successor" department.
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Re: Lets talk about the Leader Missile

Postby Queadah » Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:57 pm

I think we can't begin to fathom how Caged is going to suffer coding for this.
Seing how Grip is much more realistic than RC, my guess is, however simple it appeared in the original, many more variables are going to come into play here.
Definitely something that should make it though (my prayers to the devs).

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Re: Lets talk about the Leader Missile

Postby Ryu Makkuro » Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:54 pm

Queadah wrote:Seing how Grip is much more realistic than RC, my guess is, however simple it appeared in the original, many more variables are going to come into play here..

Well, I suppose there's more than just "realism" that makes it more difficult to code. The engine being different is probably the biggest issue in coding it properly. Everything is a lot more advanced, there's a lot more things that interact with each other etc. To be honest, I don't think "realism" has anything to do with difficulty of the coding. After all, realism is nothing more than a point of view. What is realistic for us can be completely unrealistic for someone else.
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Re: Lets talk about the Leader Missile

Postby Chris_CE » Fri May 13, 2016 9:59 am

If we want to missile to do anything but magically turn around at the exact same pivot point and not lose any speed (ala rollcage), then this will not be easy to code. :p
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Re: Lets talk about the Leader Missile

Postby Skid » Fri May 13, 2016 1:12 pm

Chris_CE wrote:If we want to missile to do anything but magically turn around at the exact same pivot point and not lose any speed (ala rollcage), then this will not be easy to code. :p


You could always just cheat and have the missile fire in reverse to start with, pop it out the front of the car, give it a quick burst of vertical speed to get it above the car that fired it, then fire it's rocket and zoom around the track in reverse. Would mean you could avoid it by taking short cuts after it's started on the main route if that makes sense, not sure if that's a good idea though.
Last edited by Skid on Fri May 13, 2016 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lets talk about the Leader Missile

Postby TheOnLY » Fri May 13, 2016 3:59 pm

Why does the missile have to hit you anyway? It can just drop a mine in front of you


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