Aegis Shield

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Yrch
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Aegis Shield

Postby Yrch » Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:04 am

So far there has been little talk about one of the most important power-up - the Aegis Shield!

The website states:
High Energy, initialy facing rear shield that can be directed to negate weapon impact.

Okay first of all, the looks:
That design showed in the trailer? If the devs keep the idea of a directional shield DON'T CHANGE IT!
I really love the design and the animation, how it pops up behind your car and the animation of these little cubes glowing and stuff, brilliant!

Gameplay behaviour:
Okay this is how i would imagine how this shield works based on the info we got so far:
When you activate the Aegis it will pop up behind your car. After the shield is fully unfolded the player is able to move the shield around freely in a 360° arc around his vehicle using the right analogue stick to block attacks from any angel. the player is able to "lock" the shield on a certain side of the vehicle (back, front, left, right) anytime he wants, but can also move it to a South-West or North-East position by holding the stick to block attacks while cornering.
the fact that the shield isnt full body anymore removes the "saftey net" function seen in other games where you dont have to care about anything as long as your shield is up. this could lead to situations where you have to decied how to use it.
do i want to put the shield in front to make it through this rubble without spinning, but risking getting shot from behind?
do i want to use it as a ram and damage it?
i think you guys know what i mean :)

about the shield strength:
i think the shield should pretty much behave like it did in RC. the shield has a given amount of "Hitpoints" and different weapons and collisions/shockwaves reduce these until its gone. also the shield should allow you to plow through obstacles, rubble and other vehciles with the risk of loosing it.


weapon behaviour:
okay now with a bunch of new toys in GRIP lets talk about what each weapon does.

- Scorpion Missile: Kills the Shield when hit
- Gattler: Damages it, a full magazine should be enough to kill the shield AND hit the vehicle afterwards
- Railgun: behaves normal, basicly ignoring the shield completley.
- Quaker: removes the shield when its directed towards it, else the car gets the full impact and shield gets damaged from the Explosion
- Assassin: Kills the shield
- Stingers: Damage the shield on impact and when they explode.
- Pulse Push: When directed towards the push it absorbs the shockwave and gets destroyed.
- EMP: shuts down the shield for a few seconds, leaving the vehicle open for attacks before rebooting.
- Aegis: when two vehicles with an Aegis directed twords each other collide, both should get damaged depending on the force of impact.
no matter how healthy the shield, the vehicle with the higher weight/body strenght should still be able to push the lighter vehicle
but with lower force.

i really love the idea around a directional, player controlled shield as it (as said before) removes the "saftey net" function and keeps you on your toes all the time.

please tell me what you think and post your own thoughts and ideas about the Aegis!

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potterman28wxcv
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Re: Aegis Shield

Postby potterman28wxcv » Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:20 pm

Yrch wrote:i really love the idea around a directional, player controlled shield as it (as said before) removes the "saftey net" function and keeps you on your toes all the time.

I can think of two issues with this :
  • Keyboard players are a bit forgotten. But as codemonkey said, if you call yourself a gamer go buy a gamepad. And also, this issue could be mitigated by having "fast keys", that would rotate the shield per increment of say 90°
  • It might be hard to get it displayed in the UI when racing in first person view
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Yrch
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Re: Aegis Shield

Postby Yrch » Thu Oct 15, 2015 4:16 pm

the keyboard thingy is something that could be solved with the "locking" and as you said having a key to switch through different positions.
but yeah these days you should have a gamepad :)

there could be a small logo in the corner of the screen displaying your vehicle and a small symbol that shows where your shield is or having a glow around the weapons icon that serve as an indicator where you have the shield and how much health it got left.

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Chris_CE
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Re: Aegis Shield

Postby Chris_CE » Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:02 pm

The original shield was actually just a bubble around the car similar to in Rollcage. When I first made it I was like damn this looks awesome, but then I really grew out of it (and realized it wasn't that awesome). So I messed around with shapes and now we've got the current design.

And yes, I did have in mind the alternating nature you mention, Yrch, but not quite to the 45 degree extent. I was thinking more just back and front, rather than all around. I think with back and front, you're pretty much covered. It would be easy to toggle (tap the "use pickup" key) and protect from almost all attacks.

We also thought about having the ageis upgrade to have both front and back shields if you pick it up twice.

As for the damage from each pickup, I like the idea of the EMP shutting it off temporarily to open for attack, but the railgun going through it could prove to be overpowered.

Regarding the bumper cam view being ruined by a front facing shield, we'd just have to make it more transparent or something. But the player would no doubt have the shield facing rear most of the time.
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potterman28wxcv
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Re: Aegis Shield

Postby potterman28wxcv » Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:25 pm

Chris_CE wrote:As for the damage from each pickup, I like the idea of the EMP shutting it off temporarily to open for attack, but the railgun going through it could prove to be overpowered.

Actually, the paralysing gun of Rollcage Stage 2 (not the ice sheet ; the one that you charge, and then release) was paralysing the target car even if it had a shield. And I don't think it was that bad, in the sense that I was not feeling particularly frustrated when being hit, and I could avoid it most of the time - it was a hard-to-aim weapon after all.

If the Railgun is at least as hard to hit than the paralysing gun, then in my opinion it would not be a big problem if the shield does not protect you from it.
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KazzyMac
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Re: Aegis Shield

Postby KazzyMac » Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:39 am

Chris_CE wrote:Regarding the bumper cam view being ruined by a front facing shield, we'd just have to make it more transparent or something. But the player would no doubt have the shield facing rear most of the time.

Or you could just hide the physical graphics in bumper cam and add a similar-looking effect to the camera around the edges so the player's view isn't obstructed but they can see that it's active?

Random question; do you plan at all to have the shield temporarily increase the car's 'strength' against opponent cars? I remember seeing in the trailer an airborne shielded car getting sent flying by another car tapping them but in the games you're taking inspiration from ( :P ) that pretty much never happened. Just wondering if you plan to give the Aegis some 'passive' effects like that or if you intend it solely to deflect incoming weapon fire.

I'm entertaining the idea of seeing a shielded car and instead of trying to waste my weapons on it I just swerve and ram it instead to try and spin it out/spin it around :P It would add a fair bit of tactical usage to the shield if a well-aimed slam will still take the car out.



Thinking on that though, what about the sides? What will happen if someone gets alongside and fires off that Pulse weapon? :ugeek:
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Re: Aegis Shield

Postby Chris_CE » Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:21 pm

Good question about the shield being able, or not being able to strengthen the car's stability. Not sure that would be fair. The shield adds a pretty big advantage already, so having the car less easy to ram as well might be too much.

As for pulse push, I think having it able to send a car veering regardless if it's shielded or not might work well. After all, you need to get awfully close to a car to make it effective. It's not easy to drive along side another car at 500 kmph
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Re: Aegis Shield

Postby nakano » Sat Jan 09, 2016 11:34 am

If the shield will stack (in current version 1.0.4 weapons probably don't stack), the first one could be the back shield and the second gives the front shield. If stacking any further is allowed, 3rd time could turn the shield into an offensive weapon "damageable aura" while also being a shield.
Last edited by nakano on Sat Jan 09, 2016 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Aegis Shield

Postby Mik1 » Sat Jan 09, 2016 11:41 am

I like the idea of being able to switch between front and back and if you had the ability to ram into rubble without any control loss (the rock flies away) but your shield takes a hit for it. You could quickly swap it forward second before impact and then quickly back incase someone is aiming a rocket at you. If being able to swap shield instantly is too effective maybe there could be a small ~1s animation of it going on the other side of the car

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yellowquiet
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Re: Aegis Shield

Postby yellowquiet » Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:20 am

This is more of just a visual effect but what about a little effect to show it being projected like a hologram.
I didn't even know what was in the splatter pack before I bought it.

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Re: Aegis Shield

Postby Queadah » Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:53 am

Casting that vote again:
  • let's have our shields switchable from back to front!!
  • Animation: take an imaginary axis between the front and rear wheels and let the shield rotate to take its new place?
  • Control: hold the slot key where the pickup used to be? This is tricky: If the shield icon remained in its slot until destruction, it would have been easier to tap again the occupied key slot, but I don't think we want the pickup slot to remain occupied for all that time. Unless 3 slots becomes standard (which ***could*** be a good idea)

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Re: Aegis Shield

Postby FrostyPL » Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:50 pm

@Queadah, we have D-Pad so I can't see the problem.

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Queadah
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Re: Aegis Shield

Postby Queadah » Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:15 am

I use keyboard so... controllers have 3 buttons after all? X)

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Re: Aegis Shield

Postby maniamaster » Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:39 am

I'd be against a lot of micromanagement once employed. I also dislike the fact that you can just plop it our without any thought behind it.
I suggest the following:

Current problems
    activate and forget gameplay -> no interesting player choices
    Too easy for leading players to obtain shield, thereby rendering assasin useless (In current assasin implementation).

Option 1:
    2 directions for shield: Front and back
    Upon activation: Shield generated in the back. The shield stays active in the slot for around 10 seconds.
    During this interval: Press again to switch from back to front. This front shield stays only for a short while.

This would accomplish:
    No protection from front (Mines, Assasin), when mindlessly employing the shield
    Choice to hold onto shield until needed to dodge a mine / assasin. This blocks your item slot, thereby balancing the shield for the front players.

Option 2 (Assuming item stacking) :
    Lvl 1 shield: current bahaviour, no protection against front assasin.
    lvl 2 shield: Front + back protection

    Option 3:
    No front shield at all
    Have more offensive weapons countering the front assassin (which then is the regular assassin) and/or mines. Let shield be protection only against normal rockets and gattler.

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Re: Aegis Shield

Postby kingbeandip » Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:33 pm

I think racing right now is balanced really well, even though the leader can hold the shield. Right now, if destructible vehicles is turned on, and you stay in the lead through most of the race, there is about a 50 - 60% chance you will survive long enough to win. I like that probability. There are many ways the race leader's shield can be defeated: 1) Get hit by two missiles in quick succession (these often come from two different racers), 2) Get hit by the EMP and then a missile (though I understand the implementation of the EMP is subject to change), 3) Get hit with a gattler (the gattler can take out a full shield with a few bullets left to still do some damage), 4) Hit a mine.

Right now there are 6 pick ups, and 1 is the assassin. This means that 1/6th of all pickups the other 9 racers grab (which is a lot), will directly target the leader. I am afraid that if the shied is nerfed in any significant way, the leader will die much too easily, and perhaps to the extent that there will be no point in leading the race at all, which would be very sad. In fact, as it is when I'm leading and get locked onto by an assassin, I often have to stop to let 2nd place pass me just because I wouldn't survive the hit.

In my mind, what would instantly make the shield overpowered, would be the ability to pick up a shield while you have one active. So when the assassin takes out the first shield you could immediately deploy the second before another assassin hits you.

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Re: Aegis Shield

Postby playabot » Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:03 pm

Totally minor gripe here - but I prefer some of the shield designs to others and want the freedom to choose a design and its colour regardless of the racing team I'm driving.

I'm wondering if a customisation option could be provided for shields?

Maybe the lore could change slightly and the shield technology could be supplied by a seperate developer(s)/provider(s) rather than being team specific.

Would ad another identifier to a racer on track and ad to the ownership you have over your ride and possibly another feature to unlock like rims and tires.

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Re: Aegis Shield

Postby twisted » Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:24 am

I have a new idea for the shield...

- As long as you have it activated it is taking one powerup slot.
- Once you deploy it, the powerup icon change showing you that you can switch it to the front and back. Hiting that powerup button switch it to the front.
- If you hold button, you drop the shield allowing you to take a second powerup back again.

It would add more strategy I think and be less OP, because when you have the shield activated, you still can have two powerups which is OP because you technically have 3 powerups at the same time.

What do you think Chris?
Last edited by twisted on Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Aegis Shield

Postby Tathendal » Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:34 am

twisted wrote:I have a new idea for the shield... as long as you have it activated it is taking one powerup slot. Once you deploy it, the icon change showing you that you can switch it to the front and back. Hiting that powerup button switch it to the front. If you hold button, you drop the shield allowing you to take a second powerup back again. It would add more strategy I think and be less OP, because when you have the shield activated, you still can have two powerups which is OP because you technically have 3 powerups at the same time.


+1
And also you could use it as a RAM thing when you have it in front to shove people, wuold be epic combined with a boost. And if you have it on your back it could be that you are less effected by ramming. Also maybe you could put it on left or right to ram people from the side? (and by ramming I mean like a normal bumb but the impact being like 5x greater on the rammeé's side and 5x lesser by the rammer's side) This would be sooo cooool.

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Re: Aegis Shield

Postby Queadah » Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:13 am

+1 @twisted

We discussed that scenario somewhere else.
It's one of the reasons I'm big on advocating:
  • a third pickup slot
(Another reason is pickup staking). The scenarios:
  • as twisted said, possibility to clear the slot, dropping shield by holding input
  • shield doesn't take a slot (current case) but takes an extra input key (for back/front switching) along with an extra UI status indicators
So yeah, +1 twisted, but would be for an extra slot to alleviate occupied slot induced less-dynamic pace

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Re: Aegis Shield

Postby TheOnLY » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:46 pm

I still think having the shield block an Inventory slot is a bad Idea, regardless of weather it can be switched or not. The argumentation hold true imo.

Here is why:

You are at the mercy of other players to free the slot, there is no way to clear that slot on your own. You have to rely on other players to break it.

"Why is that bad?" you might think.

Because every weapon except for the (quite underwhelming) mine are mainly used against cars in front so weapons mainly slow down the leading players. Blocking one slot with the shield cripples offensive capabilities as you can only carry weapon at a time. This will disadvantage players at the end of a pack of cars more than the others because the slot of the other players will be freed up eventually when their shield is destroyed, but for the last player of the pack there is nobody there to destroy his shield. - They are stuck with a shield that has almost no use for them and only one weapon, making catching up much harder.

I'd rather like to see a timed shield instead of a fire and forget one as it would only block a slot if you decide to keep it.


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