Need suggestions for alternate EMP implementation

From turbos to missiles, discuss Grip's pick-ups here
Sagacity
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:18 am

Re: Need suggestions for alternate EMP implementation

Postby Sagacity » Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:43 am

How about every power-up ball placement now emits a small EMP field similar to the current one, with the same sort of hitbox as the power pickups? It'll screw up the rhythm of the race without being a complete and utter catch-up mechanic.

User avatar
Queadah
Early Supporter 6
Early Supporter 6
Posts: 993
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:22 pm

Re: Need suggestions for alternate EMP implementation

Postby Queadah » Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:19 am

@DriftRacer14: Rollcage can't and won't have mentions in GRIP based on copyright issues alone. Sry bro, ain't gonna happen ;)

Sagacity wrote:How about every power-up ball placement now emits a small EMP field

I didn't understand :(

Sagacity
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:18 am

Re: Need suggestions for alternate EMP implementation

Postby Sagacity » Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:49 pm

So, instead of the EMP emitting across the race, each glowing orb for power-ups turns into a very small EMP emission. So, if you were to drive through a power-up, instead of getting one, you'd suffer the EMP effect, but if you're just driving around, you don't get the effect.

User avatar
Tiakh
Early Supporter 5
Early Supporter 5
Posts: 149
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2015 11:52 am
Location: Germany

Re: Need suggestions for alternate EMP implementation

Postby Tiakh » Mon Jan 23, 2017 5:45 am

Because the post got a bit longer and for the lazy ones the short Version:
2 independent Ideas:
- EMP change to lose GRIP (cars start drifting) instead of speed
- having a new power up with a secondary effect that negates the effect of EMP/Virus als a counter power up


This thread seems very interesting.
The EMP has power up is an important one for keeping the all the racers more together and making the game more tense this way.
Of course its boring to get slowed down all the time and you cant do anything against it, but the global effect on all player (especially the ones in front of the user of the power up) is very important (imo). Mario Kart as very popular casual racing game has also the lighting bolt which is also a bit lame, but fulfills the same role as the EMP here.
I dont like the idea of inverting the steering because i know that it means that i would 100% mess up especially when it changes in the middle of a curve.

What i would suggest is: that it wont slow down you directly, but forces the player to slow down themself. The easiest implementation that comes to my mind that would do this:
- the when used all cars lose all the GRIP and start drifting in curves like crazy so you are forced to slow down to take a curve. (for the sky track the downforce should be higher so you would fall down when you brake? )
ofc its not that physical explainable, but you can always say some future stuff turn your weels incredible slick.
This implementation has the advantage that players with more skill can manage to still drive through curves at higher speed so it would feel less unfair for good players.

Another good thing for this is that you could also have a counter power up that gives you SUPER GRIP and counters the effect of the EMP/Virus totally. Also it should enhance the handling and the downforce of the car (over all better control), maybe even sets the top speed higher (especially good the the speedster class that does get less of an advantage of the extra handling)
So the new power up to counter the EMP just improves the overall performance of the car and makes it untouchable to EMPS/Virus.

You could actually also let the EMP as it is and just implement this counter power up.
Oh and if you dont like the idea of increasing the over all performace power up, you could add this effect of beeing untouchable to EMPS/Virus to anoher kind of power up:
you can be creative here, maybe having a "melee" kind of weapon like a ramming inhancing weapon or a similar weapon like the one in RCII that spawns the balls around you that push opponents out of the way. (dont know the name) Or the one that charges the car up and explodes an pushes the car in your area away (also from RCII but dont know the name)
Some kind of power up like this and it should have the secondary effect of granting the user immunity to the EMP/Virus while its in use. Just to have a counter. (in Mario Kart you have the star power up to do this)

Also i really like the lighting effects it had. I would be really cool to have them back (in a fixed version).

User avatar
DriftRacer14
Posts: 85
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:14 am
Location: South Bend, IN

Re: Need suggestions for alternate EMP implementation

Postby DriftRacer14 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:17 am

Queadah wrote:@DriftRacer14: Rollcage can't and won't have mentions in GRIP based on copyright issues alone. Sry bro, ain't gonna happen ;)


That's what mods are for I guess lol I'm pretty sure this 'will' happen eventually but not 'officially'. Some RC fan's going to make mods for this game eventually that bring back classic 'Rollcage' functions. Might even pop up within the first week of Mod Support being put in (when this does happen).
OK, tell it to me straight... in Rollcage Stage II for the PS1... was Winter Wonderland II even possible to Gold Medal...? :cry:

Retreating is Running Away. Falling Back, however, is simply Advancing in a Different Direction.

User avatar
Ryu Makkuro
Posts: 390
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 4:46 pm
Location: Poland
Contact:

Re: Need suggestions for alternate EMP implementation

Postby Ryu Makkuro » Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:45 pm

How about keeping the EMP and adding the Virus, but make the EMP disable the shield and the HUD along with disabling the ability to use pickups? In that situation it becomes more of a support pickup, making the green icon more valid. In case some don't get it, disabling the pick up usage from other players is known as defensive ability.

As to the virus, I'm liking the idea in general apart from the "inverts the steering input" part. Even if the game would tell you when it happens, if it happens in a corner (and it inevitably will, Murphy's law) you can't stop turning since... well, you're in a corner, and at the moment it would switch, it would take about 300ms to be able to actually counter act it. That's almost half a second. Enough to literally completely screw you over.
Image

TheOnLY
Early Supporter 4
Early Supporter 4
Posts: 350
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2015 11:23 am

Re: Need suggestions for alternate EMP implementation

Postby TheOnLY » Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:20 pm

Ryu Makkuro wrote:How about keeping the EMP and adding the Virus, but make the EMP disable the shield and the HUD along with disabling the ability to use pickups? In that situation it becomes more of a support pickup, making the green icon more valid. In case some don't get it, disabling the pick up usage from other players is known as defensive ability.

As to the virus, I'm liking the idea in general apart from the "inverts the steering input" part. Even if the game would tell you when it happens, if it happens in a corner (and it inevitably will, Murphy's law) you can't stop turning since... well, you're in a corner, and at the moment it would switch, it would take about 300ms to be able to actually counter act it. That's almost half a second. Enough to literally completely screw you over.


+1
I like this. The EMP could become an anti shield or "just to be sure" pickup. Reduce its range and have it last a fixed (short) time and remove the slowing effect as well as the bump and it is fine. The Virus would take its place as a pickup that pushes the field closer together.

User avatar
Chris_CE
Grip Developer
Grip Developer
Posts: 2175
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:44 pm
Contact:

Re: Need suggestions for alternate EMP implementation

Postby Chris_CE » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:46 pm

How about we keep the EMP function as is, except it doesn't bump or slow down the car, but instead makes the steering a bit twitchy and erratic (not by much). That way, the player can still go full speed if they feel lucky, or slow down a bit to be sure they'll make it through the time affected by the EMP

Sagacity wrote:So, instead of the EMP emitting across the race, each glowing orb for power-ups turns into a very small EMP emission. So, if you were to drive through a power-up, instead of getting one, you'd suffer the EMP effect, but if you're just driving around, you don't get the effect.

This is a very interesting idea, though might be hard to communicate to the user
Game Director
GRIP

User avatar
Ryu Makkuro
Posts: 390
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 4:46 pm
Location: Poland
Contact:

Re: Need suggestions for alternate EMP implementation

Postby Ryu Makkuro » Mon Feb 06, 2017 5:50 pm

Chris_CE wrote:How about we keep the EMP function as is, except it doesn't bump or slow down the car, but instead makes the steering a bit twitchy and erratic (not by much). That way, the player can still go full speed if they feel lucky, or slow down a bit to be sure they'll make it through the time affected by the EMP

Honestly, I'm not happy about anything that directly affects my steering input. If the twitchiness is caused by surface, other cars, weapon hits, no problem, since there's nothing preventing me to control that through steering. If the steering input is directly affected, then there's nothing I can do when that happens and that sucks.
Image

TheOnLY
Early Supporter 4
Early Supporter 4
Posts: 350
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2015 11:23 am

Re: Need suggestions for alternate EMP implementation

Postby TheOnLY » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:47 am

How about reducing the amount of grip the cars have because their active aero doesn't work any more?

User avatar
Ryu Makkuro
Posts: 390
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 4:46 pm
Location: Poland
Contact:

Re: Need suggestions for alternate EMP implementation

Postby Ryu Makkuro » Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:27 pm

TheOnLY wrote:How about reducing the amount of grip the cars have because their active aero doesn't work any more?

I don't think there's any active aero, but the EMP could affect the electromagnetic coupling of the wheels that could create a situation where the car starts to slide a lot more. You know, wheels lock up and what not. Kind of like that freeze laser or however it was called thingamajig from RC.
Image

User avatar
Chris_CE
Grip Developer
Grip Developer
Posts: 2175
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:44 pm
Contact:

Re: Need suggestions for alternate EMP implementation

Postby Chris_CE » Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:29 pm

How is wheels locking up any better for the player than affecting their steering slightly, though? Having the car lock up is more annoying, IMO.

The lack of traction could work, then this would force players to manually slow down for corners more. We could have a flashing red icon of a tire or something that indicates they're affected
Game Director
GRIP

User avatar
Broscar
Early Supporter 6
Early Supporter 6
Posts: 650
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:35 pm
Location: ur mom #shrekt
Contact:

Re: Need suggestions for alternate EMP implementation

Postby Broscar » Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:30 pm

I'd be okay with that. The ice sheet was a very effective weapon in Rollcage, without making the victims feel powerless.

User avatar
Chris_CE
Grip Developer
Grip Developer
Posts: 2175
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:44 pm
Contact:

Re: Need suggestions for alternate EMP implementation

Postby Chris_CE » Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:34 pm

I think whatever implementation, some people will find it annoying. It's the nature of this kind of power-up. So we'll try to go with the least offensive one
Game Director
GRIP

Sagacity
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:18 am

Re: Need suggestions for alternate EMP implementation

Postby Sagacity » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:13 am

Chris_CE wrote:
Sagacity wrote:So, instead of the EMP emitting across the race, each glowing orb for power-ups turns into a very small EMP emission. So, if you were to drive through a power-up, instead of getting one, you'd suffer the EMP effect, but if you're just driving around, you don't get the effect.

This is a very interesting idea, though might be hard to communicate to the user


You could change the the appearance of the power-up orbs so that it can be more obvious that they're no longer desirable. Perhaps they can be shooting out sparks, or maybe have plasma filements extend out from them, as you would see in a plasma globe.

User avatar
VooDooQky
Posts: 216
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:10 pm

Re: Need suggestions for alternate EMP implementation

Postby VooDooQky » Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:54 pm

I'd say, let the EMP stay (i'm fine with adding the "virus" next to it), but instead of shutting down the engines and brakes, it could instantly shut down released pickups, and/or delete them from the affected player's inventory, in a much smaller range than it operates with now. So it would deactivate

- pickup slots, so an affected player is denied from pickups for a time
- mines in the affected area,
- instantly shut down fired Gattlers, Ramraiders so if you have an agressive chaser on your rear, you are better to keep the EMP with you and launch, when needed
- Aegis shields, so your target is free to fire at, along with activated Firestorm turbo
- Scorpion missiles could fall to the ground or lose target
- Assasin might stay unaffected

(- and maybe environmental lights in the affected area, would be so cool on Alhatra xP )

I think with these changes, the EMP could become more subtle and good game changer, and forfeit being a fire-and-forget pickup.

User avatar
Queadah
Early Supporter 6
Early Supporter 6
Posts: 993
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:22 pm

Re: Need suggestions for alternate EMP implementation

Postby Queadah » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:33 am

VooDooQky wrote:(- and maybe environmental lights in the affected area, would be so cool on Alhatra xP )

Dang, how come no one else thought about that! Environment impact inside the dome, like lights turning down.
Also, I think a filter is due when the EMP dome reaches you, like it bas some density, everything turns dark blue-ish/purple and fuzzy (the electricity effect is still not tied to the EMP! Only to 80% damaged car and above. That's a shame)

User avatar
VooDooQky
Posts: 216
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:10 pm

Re: Need suggestions for alternate EMP implementation

Postby VooDooQky » Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:23 pm

I tought about the filtering too, but first I wanted to know if my general idea about the main effects fired up any positive sparks...

User avatar
Broscar
Early Supporter 6
Early Supporter 6
Posts: 650
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:35 pm
Location: ur mom #shrekt
Contact:

Re: Need suggestions for alternate EMP implementation

Postby Broscar » Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:17 am

Affecting environmental lights/props (like the signs with animated arrows on them) would really add to the atmosphere of the game and having it work as a pickup deleter is a really novel idea. I can already imagine yelling at potterman for deleting the turbo I'd be saving for a straight piece of track.

User avatar
Queadah
Early Supporter 6
Early Supporter 6
Posts: 993
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:22 pm

Re: Need suggestions for alternate EMP implementation

Postby Queadah » Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:07 pm

VooDooQky wrote:EMP [...] could instantly [...] delete [pickups] from the affected player's inventory, in a much smaller range than it operates with now

+1 with two nuances:
  • not limiting the range (EMP is a pack gatherer)
  • instead of depleting inventory, what about "downgrading" it, when/if stacking comes?
    (lvl2 weapon becomes a lvl1, a lvl1 would indeed disappear)
VooDooQky wrote:- mines in the affected area,

+1 if temporarily (same timing as the HUD?), otherwise it's too OP (?)
VooDooQky wrote:- instantly shut down fired Gattlers, Ramraiders so if you have an agressive chaser on your rear, you are better to keep the EMP with you and launch, when needed

Dunno about this one. Too much of a denier?
VooDooQky wrote:- Aegis shields, so your target is free to fire at, along with activated Firestorm turbo

Isn't Aegis going down temporarily already and Firestorm denied?
VooDooQky wrote:- Scorpion missiles could fall to the ground or lose target

dunno about that one either. Scorpions already have a natural fail rate; greater odds, I wouldn't know about that.


Return to “Weapons and Power-ups”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron