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Making the game more accessible for new players - GRIP Video Game Forum

Making the game more accessible for new players

Here you give us specific suggestions on how you think the private release can be improved.

This isn't for bug reports, this is for features (example: wrong way indicator)
TheOnLY
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Making the game more accessible for new players

Postby TheOnLY » Sun Nov 06, 2016 7:54 pm

While almost every negative review animadverts that the cars are impossible handle. I agree that cars don't exactly handle like in other arcade racers, but it also is what makes Grip the game it is.
I think that if they had enough time to learn the cars handling properly there would be less negative reviews. (dont forget that the game is at very positive, too! (90ish % ))

Right now the only way to learn it is racing the bots and getting rekt until you learned the basic handling. Also almost everyone will go wild immediately. (well, i would :lol:)
When i had friends over and they play the game they play terrible on higher speeds and with other cars like the dreadnought but with low speed and cyclone do ok without crashing much.

Maybe some kind of restrictions on when you can access what speed and difficulty (i.e. having to unlock them) could help with that.
Something like having to finish one race 3rd or higher to unlock the next speed setting could do it.
It is also easier to learn the power ups at low speeds.
I don't think would be too bad for better players because doing two races wouldn't be that long.
I think pop ups wouldn't do the job, because ignoring them is just too easy. I don't even read error messages at times and then wonder why something isn't working. :oops:

There also should be some short descriptions about the cars. How does a new player know that the Cyclone is probably the best choice for him?
I am usually like "highest top speed? - sold"


And easy bot aren't that easy to beat. I usually need 2 laps on low speed to overtake them if i give them a 10 second head start.
I don*t think a rookie would be able to beat them and not even being able to beat the easiest AI sure is frustrating.
"engine speed" doesn't really imply increasing difficulty either, but i guess that is exactly the reason why there is an "AUTO" option

I already had some discussions about that topic with some people, but i think everyone should be able to share their opinions regarding that topic, especially the newer players.

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Re: Making the game more accessible for new players

Postby Ryu Makkuro » Mon Nov 07, 2016 6:33 am

Well, first of all... it's players fault for choosing the most difficult settings. It doesn't take a genius to realise that cars will be more difficult on a "Wild" engine speed than on "Low". The faster the cars the more difficult they are to drive.

Secondly, all the cars have stats (although they aren't very accurate but enough for general understanding of a car). There's one stat in particular that informs how difficult a car will be to drive, especially in an arcade racer. Grip. Again, it doesn't take a genius to figure that a car with more grip will be easier to handle than one that doesn't grip at all. If someone ignores that and goes for one with highest top speed... well again, their fault.

In short, regardless of what you'll put into the game, if the player doesn't want to use their brain, then there's nothing you can do. They'll fail and that's that. That's why noobs in racing games will always go for something that is as close to "push forward to win" as possible. Newbies that actually want to learn the game will on the other hand usually try to look for some hints though.

On top of that, 10s headstart is a lot on low speed, although takes me only a lap to get to 1st place. It's that much especially since the start off the line is more than poor when compared with normal launch, even more so when you get the launch boost. Then you have to include that normally a new player would be able to fight with the AI instead of catching it up. In short giving a handicap to AI is not really a good representation of how "bad" the AI is or how difficult it would be for a newbie to win.

Also another thing to keep in mind is that making a game easier is not the same as making it accessible. One could even argue that giving players a win on a silver platter is making the game less accessible, because it results in a completely unsatisfactory gameplay that will bore players very quickly and won't naturally force them to get better at the game (catch up, I'm looking at you). Currently the main thing that makes the game not as accessible as it should be are the issues with physics. Although naturally those are in WIP so issues on that front are to be expected.


Now, one way to try and make new players not use the higher engine speed without using a lot of resources is a form of a pop up on the race selection screen that has a 3s or so delay before you can close it and would have a text like this in it: "Wild engine speed is meant for experienced player. If you're new to the game, low and medium engine speeds are highly advised". Maybe a text in the garage that indicates the cars class would be nice as well. If something belongs to a class called "tank" the only thing you can imagine is it being quite difficult to handle.
Naturally, that is just a "placeholder" so to speak and a proper tutorial will have to be implemented sooner or later. One that would literally explain all the game mechanics to the players, or rather teach them by making them do specific things, like "perform 3 successful wallrides" or "drive through 3 speed pads placed on the ceiling" etc.

As a last note, I'd like to point out there exist a word that describes the type of people that would complain about game being difficult when they choose the most difficult options: hypocrites ;)

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Re: Making the game more accessible for new players

Postby Broscar » Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:58 am

Locking speed/difficulty would be an unwise design choice, imo.
I'm a fan of the 'tutorial' level. Or simply put, just an option in the main menu called 'practice', in which you're able to select a different car on-the-fly without having to reload the level. RC1, anyone?
Give people a chance to come to terms with GRIP's mechanics, vehicles and weapons without any competitive push behind it; just add a 1 (or more) über-easy bot for target practice and you're good to go.

Ryu is right though. Right now, the handling issues and physics bugs are what makes the game inaccessible to new players. It's a simple matter of a person expecting an action when he tilts the analog stick one way, but then the car ends up bouncing around uncontrollably until it launches itself for some 8-second airtime and ends up on the track 180 degrees from where it's supposed to go. That's a major turn-off for a lot of people; we're patient because we've seen the progress that has been made already, we're loyal fans and some of us are used to similar driving mechanics, but there's plenty of competition in the gaming space and if that's people's first impression with the game, you bet your arse they'll just shut it down and fire up something else.






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Re: Making the game more accessible for new players

Postby Tathendal » Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:39 am


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Re: Making the game more accessible for new players

Postby potterman28wxcv » Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:23 pm


Check out the for the Rollcage Neo-mode Tournament 2017, starting 15th April !

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Re: Making the game more accessible for new players

Postby Cornkid » Mon Nov 07, 2016 3:18 pm


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Re: Making the game more accessible for new players

Postby VooDooQky » Mon Nov 07, 2016 5:16 pm

I do agree with the tutorial idea. The game menu should pop up an advice message about playing some tutorial levels, if you launch the game for the first time, with a button, which fly you right into a practice session, like it is in League of Legends. Some simple carkour-style tracks could do the trick.

...Or one longer, which includes all features about driving physics. I could imagine a pretty enjoyable experience if the tutorial would go like this:

Note, that there are alternate tracks for the AI and checkpoints for event triggers after maneuver practices... i know i know, i'm delusional, but whatever, lemme dream :D

BRACE YOURSELVES! WALL OF TEXT INCOMING!

[track barrier in, low engine speed, destructible cars on, pickups for AI: none, with 1 exception]
3-2-1-GO! -> easy short right--> easy short left--> full pedal straight on -> long uphill straight (for natural slowdown, cuz newbs don't wanna release the gas EVER!!!) -> ascending stop (checkpoint) -> easy short right--> easy short left--> full pedal straight on with speedpads -> long right twist upward, twist stopping in upside down direction -> track suddenly cut (with signs about it on the way), falling back on normal position again (checkpoint) -> track axis half twist, making a U turn back, then twist back into normal position -> uphill straight with 2 rocket pickups -> ascending stop-> short zigzag with 2 standstill AI cars on separate floating platforms inserted (target practice) -> short straight with a track cut (checkpoint) -> big drop -> short straight with 1 turbo -> big loop with gattler on the apex (Checkpoint: 1-1 AI starts to move on separate tracks from the sides of the main road ascending to it in a straddling manner, and merging into the main road in the end. The AI's have to be timed, that they arrive right in gattler sight before the player) -> long straight, [track narrows down, track barrier out] -> player target practice (the 2 AI shall fall off the track, checkpoint) -> half loop up with speedpads + EMP -> upside down long right turn -> another AI track merging in, AI speeding in front of the player, EMP practice, AI shall fall into the void -> after straight, the upside down loops back to normal (checkpoint) -> straight + shield -> AI track merges with AI BEHIND the player, while hoarding 2 Gattlers -> AI starts shooting, shield test. Note: shield pickups come mixed with mines for the player, objective: destroy, or drop the chasing AI from the track with mines, totally doable on the narrow track (checkpoint) -> all kind of twists and turns can come from now, just make sure, that a player gets an assasin, and 2 targets before him in the previously displayed manner, to check effect -> finish line, congrats Derp! You are now qualified to... whatever text : D

so, this, while on screen messages (or cleverly made floating billboards ;)) instruct SCREAM at the player what to do at each section. Dunno if it's doable tho. I envisioned this, and it looked intense and fun, for a tutorial! :D

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Re: Making the game more accessible for new players

Postby Ryu Makkuro » Mon Nov 07, 2016 5:34 pm


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Re: Making the game more accessible for new players

Postby potterman28wxcv » Mon Nov 07, 2016 6:06 pm


Check out the for the Rollcage Neo-mode Tournament 2017, starting 15th April !

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Re: Making the game more accessible for new players

Postby Ryu Makkuro » Mon Nov 07, 2016 6:22 pm


TheOnLY
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Re: Making the game more accessible for new players

Postby TheOnLY » Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:14 pm

Last edited by TheOnLY on Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Making the game more accessible for new players

Postby HikikomoriGamer » Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:25 pm

Just put a friendly advice saying: getting your ass kicked? try slower classes! or Try practicing with the AI on slower classes before going online. Sadly not everyone is super intelligent or skilled you know :)

But in the end what makes ppl keep playing is if they love the game or not BUT I guess you can save some poor souls by treating them like kids hahahaha





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Re: Making the game more accessible for new players

Postby TheOnLY » Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:33 pm


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Re: Making the game more accessible for new players

Postby potterman28wxcv » Tue Nov 08, 2016 4:11 am


Check out the for the Rollcage Neo-mode Tournament 2017, starting 15th April !

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Re: Making the game more accessible for new players

Postby Django » Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:14 am

I dont agree that catch up makes winning much easyer (ok on wild maybe) it just keeps the pack together. Aaand it makes the speed weird but maybe thats just me.

Anyway the game should be done in a way that even casual player without racing experience and crapy hardware will have fun from the start. I know its not easy to balance a game in a way that its always challenging but not too much. But thats exactly what should be aimed for. You should do some testing with first time players and kids. Us people with experience cant even think like a complete newbie anymore.

Will the players be crusehed online? Yes, without lots of players and very good matchmaking thats almost unavoidable and thats the case in most games. Its a logic problem. Once you play online first time you will meet people that have played what you have played and have online experince. And since people who play a lot are more often online youre chance to meet higher skilled players (without ranking or sth.) is pretty high.

EDIT: One way to start a cheap newbie survey could be if experienced players ask their brother, sister, girlfriend or whoever who hasent played the game before to play for 15 min. So just start the game step back and shut up (No help !!!) for about 15 minutes and just let the person check the game out and play a bit.

Afterwards some Questions:
What was your experience?
What did you like? What did you dislike? Would you play more?

And some general Questions: Age, Gender/Sex, Game experience, Race Game experience, Rollcage experience, the used controller set and game version.

This would be a relativly easy way to see what people out of our Bubble think and how to make the game better for new players. (ok the 15 mins could be stretched but i guess not more than 60 mins)

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Re: Making the game more accessible for new players

Postby Ryu Makkuro » Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:36 am


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Re: Making the game more accessible for new players

Postby potterman28wxcv » Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:02 am


Check out the for the Rollcage Neo-mode Tournament 2017, starting 15th April !

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Re: Making the game more accessible for new players

Postby Tathendal » Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:24 am


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Re: Making the game more accessible for new players

Postby VooDooQky » Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:10 am

Rollcage games had some encouraging text, regarding on what position did you finish the race. Would be nice to see them in GRIP. But with more variations for each position :)

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Re: Making the game more accessible for new players

Postby Django » Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:27 am

@VoodooQky
I guess i missed that.


I like how it was done in Spec Ops: The Line. If you play a section over and over and dont win, the game asks you to try a lower setting. There were 5 setting if i remember correctly and the highest is almost impossible. The most important part is that you can change the difficulty at any time in the campaign. Not much is more frustrating than playing most of the game and then not being able to finish it because the last level is 5 times harder than anything before.


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