POLL: Let's talk about vehicle acceleration off the line and the ability to get back in the race

A place where the GRIP devs poll for feedback on various topics.

Please stay on topic in each poll's corresponding thread

What's your opinion on the vehicles' acceleration off the line, and speed recovering from crashes?

It's fine - I like a little bit of sim in my rocket powered tank car game
10
23%
Could be a bit faster - The cars are heavy so they shouldn't fly off the line, but right now they're kinda slow
15
35%
Needs to be twice as quick - Taking too long to get out of the starting grid and to recover from crashes is annoying
15
35%
Boost them as much as possible - The slow start and slow recovery makes me not want to play the game sometimes
3
7%
 
Total votes: 43

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Re: POLL: Let's talk about vehicle acceleration off the line and the ability to get back in the race

Postby potterman28wxcv » Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:54 am

Broscar wrote:I have no interest in realism. We're driving tanks on the ceiling of tunnels located on fictional planets. Wheelspin for wheelspin sake is a flawed reasoning.
Making the cars slow to recover from crashes is a frustrating experience for both veterans and newbies, and harms gameplay. It doesn't have to be like neo-mode from Rollcage, this is it's own game, but I'm certain that Wrob3l's video has made it painfully obvious for both Chris and others that the current state of affairs is not in GRIP's favour.
Rollcage is an immediate punch to the stomach. You're in a race, not 3 seconds from leaving the starting line. Meanwhile, GRIP starts off slow and clumsy and starts off slow and clumsy again with every single crash/reset, further compounded by the (as of now) inevitable collision glitches.

You want this to be an intense racing game that gets the heart pumping or some faux realistic driving game?

WROB3L wrote:

7:20
That`s why this game has to be as fast as possible........


I completely follow Broscar and WROB3L. Especially the comparison.. In Rollcage and Rollcage Stage 2 you're already in the race, in GRIP you didn't even start yet and you're still on the slow-ass phase of acceleration.

GRIP needs to be way faster. At least for the acceleration part. After seeing WROB3L video it's really obvious.
Like Bro's said, GRIP wants to stand on its own and we respect that. But I would prefer playing a carbon copy of Rollcage rather than a spiritual successor that stands on its own but is not fun to play.

Who cares about lore just as long as there is a fun gameplay. And now that there are less issues with physics, it's maybe time to uncap this aspect of GRIP and privilege fun over realism. The 0 to mid acceleration should be way faster, and the mid to max should be a bit lower than what it is now so that you really feel the car accelerating (right now, mid to max is a bit of an instant unnoticeable acceleration)
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Re: POLL: Let's talk about vehicle acceleration off the line and the ability to get back in the race

Postby Chris_CE » Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:29 pm

ha, atv with the in-depth analysis again. Nice one. I'm sure Rob will appreciate that breakdown

Alright, looks like the majority want faster acceleration. I'll be relaying this thread internally to see the response.

KazzyMac wrote:1) At least to an extent, should all the cars have comparable acceleration from a standstill? The difference between the Cyclone and Dreadnought from a standstill is probably too great, yet I understand the cyclone is supposed to have much higher acceleration.

This just makes starting behind a dreadnought frustrating, because there isn't room to pass them even if they get a boost start as well because of how much different their acceleration is (even under a boost start!), so at least until, say, 120km/h, 150, 180, what if the cars had similar (not identical) acceleration, and then after that the acceleration tapered off so that the dread would still take longer to get up to speed than a cyclone, but from a standstill (read: race start or recovery) it'd get going quicker? It's a thought and could at the least play into making a recovery easier overall.

Pretty good call. This would alleviate traffic jams more

TheOnLY wrote:cars starting on the ceiling.

This is an interesting idea

Tathendal wrote:believable

This is a good descriptive word to use for the game. Everything about Grip is a little more grounded in believability than rollcage, and we'd like to keep it that way. But people here makes good points about limiting frustrating and maximizing fun, so a balance needs to be struck

Ryu Makkuro wrote:First of all... bit of sim? What are you on about? What "simulator" have you played? A super light rally cars, with very short gear boxes, no electronical aids (they are banned in WRC and WRX), insane amount of torque and a lot of horsepower for the weight, and they have little to no wheel spin off the line. On gravel. That's been the case for... over 30 years now. There is nothing even remotely realistic/sim like about the wheelspin at the launch in this game at all. NOTHING.

I didn't mention wheel spin in my post. I do agree with people here who say it should be minimized, though.

WROB3L wrote:Oh and the handbrake should lock the wheels a LOT earlier. *Cough*driftingwouldbepossible*cough

You mean natural drift I take it? Rather than tap the handbrake and auto-initiate a drift

Demi wrote:I'm all for faster acceleration, but i'd like this to still be possible.

Won't be happening much in Multiplayer, once everyone knows how to boost start :P

twisted wrote:I'm perfectly fine with the acceleration and speed of the vehicles. The only thing I dislike a little is the slow, sluggish drifting starts!

This is when tapping the handbrake to initiate, or trying to drift naturally around a hard corner?

potterman28wxcv wrote:The 0 to mid acceleration should be way faster, and the mid to max should be a bit lower than what it is now so that you really feel the car accelerating (right now, mid to max is a bit of an instant unnoticeable acceleration)

Agreed, though we don't want to overdo it on the intial accel.
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Re: POLL: Let's talk about vehicle acceleration off the line and the ability to get back in the race

Postby WROB3L » Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:06 pm

Chris_CE wrote:
WROB3L wrote:Oh and the handbrake should lock the wheels a LOT earlier. *Cough*driftingwouldbepossible*cough

You mean natural drift I take it? Rather than tap the handbrake and auto-initiate a drift



Ofcourse :D

Edit.
I think physics are good enough, i tried to lock the wheels at low speeds and the back shot out nicely, but remember that to stick with the drift, you gotta rape the rpms, so the wheels won`t get a grip again.
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Re: POLL: Let's talk about vehicle acceleration off the line and the ability to get back in the race

Postby Chris_CE » Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:08 pm

I'll be relaying this thread to Rob to have a look

@wrob3l: indeed, you can sustain a drift if you just keep on the gas and play with the handbrake. Would be good to improve this with the drifting in general
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Re: POLL: Let's talk about vehicle acceleration off the line and the ability to get back in the race

Postby maniamaster » Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:25 pm

I voted for the third option, although I must say, driving the tanks especially I could have also gone with the 4th option.
Greatly increasing acceleration is something that could improve this game a ton.
The question remains how this would affect the balancing / closeness of the pack.

Maybe it will even prove useful in the drift / friction issue.

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Re: POLL: Let's talk about vehicle acceleration off the line and the ability to get back in the race

Postby Tathendal » Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:39 pm

Can I change my vote and if so, how? After playing more and after couple of beers (crashing more.. daym.. why is that?) I want to pick the 3rd option instead of the 2nd :D

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Re: POLL: Let's talk about vehicle acceleration off the line and the ability to get back in the race

Postby Broscar » Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:51 pm

Tathendal wrote:Can I change my vote and if so, how? After playing more and after couple of beers (crashing more.. daym.. why is that?) I want to pick the 3rd option instead of the 2nd :D

The poll allows people to change their vote now.
Feel free to pick the correct option this time around ;p

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Re: POLL: Let's talk about vehicle acceleration off the line and the ability to get back in the race

Postby wantfastcars » Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:53 pm

I've always liked the feeling of weight in GRIP that isn't present in Rollcage. Don't get me wrong, I love Rollcage, but the cars feel like toys with how fast they zip around. GRIP feels much heavier, and I like that.

That being said, I wouldn't mind the cars having a bit more get-up-and-go. Like others have said, these cars are huge and heavy, the wheels are gonna be pressed hard into any surface they're resting on. Wheelspin doesn't make much sense, and it's really only that first hundred/hundred fifty kmh that's an issue right now.
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Re: POLL: Let's talk about vehicle acceleration off the line and the ability to get back in the race

Postby Chris_CE » Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:36 pm

The wheel spin should be reduced now. We'll take another look at vehicle acceleration once Rob's done a bit more work on car performance in general
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Re: POLL: Let's talk about vehicle acceleration off the line and the ability to get back in the race

Postby atv_123 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:52 pm

Well... as far as wheel spin goes... these cars would actually be spinning their wheels quite a lot unless the jets provide most of the thrust. I say this because of the fact that if we were to go from 0 to 300kph in 3 seconds, that would mean that we are pulling an acceleration of 27.8m/s^2 or about 2.83G's (in earth gravity). Now, that's not to crazy a number, but assuming these things are using rubber tires, that means that they can only accelerate at about 1G from tire force alone (assuming no downforce... if we used drag radials, that can be as high as 4 G's but then on dirt it would be useless). This means that either more than half of the acceleration comes from the jets, or, until these things start to generate some serious downforce, they will be spinning their tires like a dragster in burnout stage... ON PAVEMENT... nevermind about dirt or snow or whatever else these things drive on. These cars make some serious power, and even though they are heavy, that doesn't mean that they won't be lively.

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Re: POLL: Let's talk about vehicle acceleration off the line and the ability to get back in the race

Postby Chris_CE » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:44 pm

Yeah but a lot of wheel spin is no fun :p
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Re: POLL: Let's talk about vehicle acceleration off the line and the ability to get back in the race

Postby atv_123 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:20 pm

This is also true... so... how do we overcome this problem? Well... we have some Giant Jet Engines and tons of thrust at our disposal... we can remedy the wheel spin (from just taming it to completely eliminating it altogether).

If on the tops of the cars (either side... doesn't really matter as long as the force is going the correct direction) we had directed exhaust vents, we could effectively eliminate wheel spin off the line and increase traction. This would basically work like the fan car that was banned from formula one but rather than creating a vacuum below the car, we create a high pressure region above the car instead. Instant downforce from a standstill.

Believable, Doable, Quick Acceleration, No wheel spin (depending on the surface and the amount of force directed to being perpendicular to the car). This could also gradually cut out above about 200 to 300 as the car would then be generating enough downforce to solve these problems for itself :)

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Re: POLL: Let's talk about vehicle acceleration off the line and the ability to get back in the race

Postby Chris_CE » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:09 pm

^ Rob would appreciate this post ;)
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Re: POLL: Let's talk about vehicle acceleration off the line and the ability to get back in the race

Postby atv_123 » Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:32 pm

I think I would like Rob wherever he is hiding at :lol:

To add to this though... Who would not want to see giant fireballs shooting out the top of their rig every time the accelerator is mashed? I know I would think it would look pretty epic! :D

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Re: POLL: Let's talk about vehicle acceleration off the line and the ability to get back in the race

Postby Broscar » Wed May 03, 2017 5:29 pm

What's the current consensus of the dev team on this issue?

Starting in 1st place on Acrophobia feels really good acceleration-wise with the boost pad and the boost start combined together; I'd love for the rest of the game to feel similar acceleration-wise.

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Re: POLL: Let's talk about vehicle acceleration off the line and the ability to get back in the race

Postby Queadah » Thu May 04, 2017 2:04 am

Good question & remark ^

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Re: POLL: Let's talk about vehicle acceleration off the line and the ability to get back in the race

Postby Splotchie » Thu May 04, 2017 9:34 am

Dunno if I'm late to this but I wanna throw in my two cents.
It's not about realism, but I like the way the slow start builds up suspense and tension and makes the vehicle feel powerful -- more like a war machine than a racecar. The starting grid especially is a great establishing moment that makes me *feel* the sort of power and violence that this game is about before any of it even happens.

There's room for change while still keeping that feeling, but please make sure you at least keep it in mind. A little bit of tiger in me absolutely loves that moment.
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Re: POLL: Let's talk about vehicle acceleration off the line and the ability to get back in the race

Postby atv_123 » Thu May 04, 2017 12:37 pm

You know... I never really thought about it like that... but now that you mention it... whenever I play Rollcage, the cars never really felt large, heavy, or even powerful to me. They honestly felt more like R/C cars (remote control, not rollcage) to me more than anything with their crazy speeds, bouncy collisions, and somewhat mundane sounds. That and this was probably helped along by one of my other favorite games that I always played along side Rollcage being ReVolt. That game also had a car called the Rotor ( http://revolt.wikia.com/wiki/Rotor ) that you could flip over and keep driving as well and without the brutal acceleration... IT being an R/C car actually felt more massive than the Rollcage cars because it was so slow.

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Re: POLL: Let's talk about vehicle acceleration off the line and the ability to get back in the race

Postby Chris_CE » Mon May 22, 2017 5:24 pm

There's been no consensus about the overall acceleration

Rob is in the same mind as the two posts above me. He hated how toy-like the cars in Rollcage felt, so the more we move towards that, the more he will feel the identity of GRIP is moving in a direction he doesn't like.

That said, I think upping the acceleration a little bit (the 2nd poll option) can't hurt
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Re: POLL: Let's talk about vehicle acceleration off the line and the ability to get back in the race

Postby MicrowaveYourHamster » Tue May 23, 2017 8:30 am

Speaking about the ability to get back in the race nowadays: I recently started selecting the more agile rigs with more acceleration even for tracks that seem to be designed for more high-speed circuits/tracks with fewer sharp turns. That's because it's easier to catch up with the opponents after you crash or fall out of the track with a whining hi-acceleration toy. So in the end, taking the tank-like rigs works now for me only on the condition that I don't crash, which is awkward, because the tank-like ones should generally encourage more reckless driving.

Does anyone of you have similar experiences recently?

I have no clue what is the reason behind that shift in my rig selection. Except for, perhaps, that I suck at the game.


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