Aegis Shield

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Queadah
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Re: Aegis Shield

Postby Queadah » Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:42 am

Totally legit analysis, however as twisted said:
twisted wrote:
  • As long as you have it activated it is taking one powerup slot.
  • Once you deploy it, the powerup icon change showing you that you can switch it to the front and back. Hiting that powerup button switch it to the front.
  • If you hold button, you drop the shield allowing you to take a second powerup back again.

Third point: holding the input for shield would drop it, so imo, twisted is close to the best of every world.

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Re: Aegis Shield

Postby playabot » Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:08 am

Dudes, I like the shields persistence and keeping that weapon slot clear - its not really op when everyone has the chance to pick up a shield. I think that removing this would lessen strategic possibilities available to players...

At most make the shield have a max time limit that can be upgraded - but keep the slot clear imo.

Additionally, to ad to shield functionality, I would like to see the devs play with the idea of timing the activation of your shield to deflect missiles i.e. missile incoming, warnings beeping, impact imminent, activate shield and the missile is deflected, the driver left with an active shield. If you want to play it safe, activate early and lose the shield in the impact. If you mistime it, you wear it.

Ad a bit of nuance to things.

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Re: Aegis Shield

Postby twisted » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:56 am

playabot wrote:Dudes, I like the shields persistence and keeping that weapon slot clear - its not really op when everyone has the chance to pick up a shield. I think that removing this would lessen strategic possibilities available to players...


I disagree and here's why:

- Picking up the shield is just about luck really, a variable which cannot be determined. When I say it's OP it's not because of that, but rather because once you have it, you can pick up two other powerups for a total of three making you stronger than the majority of your opponents. The more the game is balanced, the closer the pack of cars will be to each others, a crucial point in an action game that is about fighting your opponents.

- You have to keep in minds that a lot of players asked for having the shield switchable to the front, including being able to drop powerups... features that could be hardly implemented with the limited control scheme of a gamepad. The solution I propose include all this with one single button.

- I think that it would add even more strategy, asking yourself... ''should I get rid of my defensive shield at the expanse of gaining one more offensive weapon but risk getting hit or play it safe and balanced with one offensive and one defensive weapon?'' It gives you the choice, the choice of playing it offensive or defensive. Right now, you don't have it, it's about forced strategy because you can't choose when you will be OP as it's determined by luck, the luck of picking up the shield and two other weapons. The solution I propose still gives you the ability to attack, it's not like you were losing the other slot anyway. You have to keep in mind the shield is the only permanent powerup in the game, so it's a privilege, a powerful one rather than a crutch. And the fact that you gain the ability to switch it to the front makes it less static, more fun interaction-wise and slightly more powerful (to counter the lost), by giving you the ability to hit a mine without a scratch if inadvertently you see it at the last second and it's too late to jump over it. In fact, I think we should be able to ram any mines and the only thing that should break the shield is missiles. This way, people will feel that even if you miss one pickup slot, the shield is valuable. I can already see me switching between front and rear to save my ***. Add to this a flares powerup for avoiding missiles and it would be totally awesome!
Last edited by twisted on Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:37 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: Aegis Shield

Postby playabot » Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:09 pm

I stand by my comments man, the shield may be the only persistent weapon in the game but it is largely the only counter to the majority of the other strictly offensive weapons.

Set and forget works for me. Regardless, one missile strike will remove the 'privilege'. The second will own you.

The argument re 'i get to hold more weapons then other players at a particular time', may also be redundant, often there is time enough to use a weapon between pickup locations and fundamentally one slot will do - not that that's my argument. I would be concerned if suddenly I found myself carrying three shields but that never happens. And man, while you're collecting weapons the rest of the field isn't static, they're collecting weapons too and may well end up with an active shield and two full slots.

I'm not against the potential to absorb weapons to recover health or boost. Not against a switchable shield ether as a counter to mines (and the eventual inclusion of the reversing leader missile ;)) But I'm very comfortable with shield persistence and the two slots. No sacred cows I get it and I'm happy to play with anything (it will be balanced in the end).

I wouldn't be adverse to an upgrade path for the weapon that eventually results in it being more persistent, have a deflection function, switch function...

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Re: Aegis Shield

Postby Broscar » Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:38 am

playabot wrote:Additionally, to ad to shield functionality, I would like to see the devs play with the idea of timing the activation of your shield to deflect missiles i.e. missile incoming, warnings beeping, impact imminent, activate shield and the missile is deflected, the driver left with an active shield. If you want to play it safe, activate early and lose the shield in the impact. If you mistime it, you wear it.

Ad a bit of nuance to things.

I like this a lot.

Also, the concept of the shield not taking up a weapon slot is from Rollcage, thus the support/complaining from vets to keep it like that.
Rollcage balanced this out by having shields deteriorate on nearby explosions and running into walls, which meant shields didn't last all that long. GRIP doesn't have this mechanic and as a result racers are guaranteed surviving at least 1 weapon hit, in a game where weapon hits are less common due to it being more spaced out than Rollcage.

Twisted's idea has been discussed in 2015 too, but vets really don't like it when you take away their powerup slot (me included).
Personally I say slap a timer on the aegis. Make 'em last 5 or 8 seconds (or until weapon hit), then disappear.

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Re: Aegis Shield

Postby Queadah » Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:10 am

+1 on Broscar's quote above from playabot.

I do consider myself as a vet and did prefer shield not taking a slot, however:
  • I do acknowledge leaving it in its slot gives control for say, a "flip" functionality WITHOUT having to attribute a new key
  • In my taste, this functionality outweights the drawback of an occupied slot considering mines, opponents facing you with gattlers in arena AND soon perhaps, the assassin hitting you from the front!
  • Considering holding input for shield COULD drop it, thus clearing the slot (suggested by twisted), the urge for a timer seems less relevant
...which is why I'm changing camp.

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Re: Aegis Shield

Postby Chris_CE » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:31 pm

I also like Twisted's notes on the shield. Takes a slot, can switch back n forth by tap (or slight hold), then hold to drop.

I do like the idea of the player needing to initiate it for protection though, perhaps it can be:

Tap input = initiate for 4 seconds
Hold input (1.5 sec) = switch to opposite end and initiate for 4 seconds
Hold input (3 seconds) = ditch shield and clear inventory spot
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Queadah
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Re: Aegis Shield

Postby Queadah » Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:23 pm

Chris_CE wrote:Takes a slot, can switch back n forth by tap (or slight hold], then hold to drop.

That would be REALLY good news... can't wait to test the basics of it :D !! (unsure about the timers only)

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Re: Aegis Shield

Postby Queadah » Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:23 am

Reviving this thread after re-reading it.
Still close to the roots of what was 1st suggested:

Shield

Using it (tap)

  • regular back shield
  • NEW shield keeps a slot occupied even in use
  • NEW this way, tap again and it flips back to front on demand
  • NEW to get rid of it, hold input (just like holding would drop every pickup - coop play)
Charging it (dtap)

  • gives it partial health back (1/4 or whatever) when in use (not OP since it occupies a slot and prevents players from getting more than 1 other item or charge, as a counterbalance)
  • could do ??? if not active, dunno

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Re: Aegis Shield

Postby Chris_CE » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:41 pm

There's just not much reason to have a shield on the front outside of Arena mode right now, so it would be weird to implement it this way soon, if at all. We shall see
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Re: Aegis Shield

Postby Queadah » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:03 am

Chris_CE wrote:There's just not much reason to have a shield on the front outside of Arena mode right now, so it would be weird to implement it this way soon, if at all. We shall see

Since Assassins don't hit the front (yet?) and mines took a temporary break from us, unfortunately, it may be true T_T

Should these 2 items be fully implemented however, I'll go on a limb and pray the day comes to light
caged website wrote:Aegis:
High energy, initially rear-facing shield that can be directed around the vehicle to negate the impact of incoming weapons

#fulfilingTHEinitialVISION

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Re: Aegis Shield

Postby fenixblue » Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:48 am

The Aegis Shield is the most boring part of the game, and that's always been true for the majority of racers that have them but what if we spice it up a bit? Dropping the shield with holding input, well doesnt holding input already take up the charge ability?

My 2c
How about dropping the shield as a defensive obstacle like mines? Have the shield itself become a deployable wall, that could be destroyed or smashed through for a reduction in speed or take a hit to the hull. The trade off would be it deployed shields won't stop aerial attacks like Scorpions and it would time-out so you don't have shield walls everywhere. Could bring more interest to both leading and following with strategic risk/reward placement and people not so eager to waste pickups that could destroy the shield-obsticle.

Just use the classic input for defensive measures, holding down while using the shield.

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Re: Aegis Shield

Postby Queadah » Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:20 pm

fenixblue wrote:Dropping the shield with holding input, well doesnt holding input already take up the charge ability?

I was referring to the fact (poll at http://www.strawpoll.me/14610171/r) that majority of players said double tap should charge. *sigh* I'm so tired.

Rest, not so hot since dropping would have to be consistent across all other items. What's with dropping the gattler or the missiles, would that make an obstacle too ? Better drop them as pickups for others to pick imho (again, for coop play).

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Re: Aegis Shield

Postby fenixblue » Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:46 pm

Yeah i've seen the doubletap charge, could work and I would be for trying it out, but for now it's holding input. So that's what I will react to.

Queadah wrote:Rest, not so hot since dropping would have to be consistent across all other items. What's with dropping the gattler or the missiles, would that make an obstacle too ? Better drop them as pickups for others to pick imho (again, for coop play).

Totally disagree, this is an awful reach to shoot down the idea.

The Aegis Shield is already a wall that can stop projectiles, it's not even a logical leap that it could effect cars as well if it was dropped onto the ground and act much like the holographic barriers around the track. It's also easy to spot a green wall compared to the small mine indicator. We have no defensive weapons in the game right now and the mine still hasn't returned.

Grip's weapons are too 1 dimensional in their use. We need some more versatility in how Pick-Ups work if you want strategic depth.

MK allows banana's to be lobbed forward (hold up while firing), held as a shield, or dropped as an obstacle. MK also has bombs that can be lobbed forward exploding on impact, or left on the track as a timed bomb. MK allows you to shoot green shells forward, bank off walls to hit, hold as a shield or fire behind (holding down while firing). Stars and Barges(Blur) are both offensive and defensive. Blur allows you to fire bolts in-front or behind, and like redshells shunts can be used to lap the track when you are in first. Allowing multiple uses opens up more creative ways to play.

None of these things are hard to understand for millions of players for decades that special inputs only applies to certain weapons. And it's totally nonsensical to expect to be able to deploy the Raptor in the same fashion as an obstacle.


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