Capture the Flag

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Kami
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Capture the Flag

Postby Kami » Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:04 am

I was browsing the game modes arena and using the search button but it seems that nobody suggested CTF?

I havent played the game yet since i am not invited in the closed alpha, however i will join asap when it launches on steam.

After seeing the christmas arena it struck me that having a map like that but elongated with a CTF mode would have been awesome. 2v2 or 3v3, missiles to take the flag carrier down, Driving through the flag picks it up etc etc. Let your imagination take control! :D

My imagination is as follows:
- a huge, streched out map (racing still being a part of the mode), mostly flat but not road-flat.
- no roads, just simple obstacles, hills, bumps, some towers etc.
- multiple lanes to take ( rush, stealth, shortcut, decoy road... etc), imagine a dota/LoL type of map but you would have to race through the lanes (or jungle) with their base housing their flag and you would have to steal or fight for it, then once aquired run away with the flag to your base asap. The space in between the lanes could be the Jungle/shortcuts and source for powerups.
- A base has tower defenses, you would have to knock the defenses down first or rush past them with shields.
- Working turrets give locations of the enemy team for your minimap.

Im not really sold on the idea of turrets and a base, it could make it more stale, however i also dont know about a complete open map where you can just snatch the flag, this creates too much chaos in my opinion and would wear people out.

What are your thoughts, how would you envision a CTF idea? Does it sound nice at all or am i just rambling :p

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StickyBassline
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Re: Capture the Flag

Postby StickyBassline » Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:44 am

I personally don't think this fits Grips style, and the cars in Grip does not have the same control like cars in Rocket league. The cars in Grip are big tanks that lacks air control and can barely turn at their incredible speed. Cars in rocket league are really focused on jumping, fast turning and good air control, So I don't really think it'd work well.
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Re: Capture the Flag

Postby Kami » Wed Jan 13, 2016 12:45 pm

StickyBassline wrote:I personally don't think this fits Grips style, and the cars in Grip does not have the same control like cars in Rocket league. The cars in Grip are big tanks that lacks air control and can barely turn at their incredible speed. Cars in rocket league are really focused on jumping, fast turning and good air control, So I don't really think it'd work well.


yeah i agree that on a small scale, arena it would be too clunky with the feel of these cars. However that wasn't my target, I am thinking more about a way larger map, allowing these big tanks to move around a lot and also there doesn't need to be air time at all, CTF is more about racing, catching people off guard, defending your own flag, etc. Imagine more like a normal race map, but without it being a lap, it will be more of a League of legends style of map. Basically 3 (highway) lanes with dead ends (ending at your base and their base) but with the possibility to move between he lanes. Basically a big field with forest/bumbs in between. This gives in my opinion a lot of strategic possibilities:

- Choosing lanes to attack
- Going off-road for powerups
- Always being aware from where youre being attacked
- split the team or attack all together through the same lane
- How are you going to defend their attack

etc etc.

But yeah maybe it wont work :p , lets at least have a discussion about it :D

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Re: Capture the Flag

Postby StickyBassline » Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:03 pm

I can actually visualize it now and It could be really cool if they could manage to make it, it would be really complex to make and it'd need to be huuuge.
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Re: Capture the Flag

Postby Temeraire » Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:13 pm

Someone knows Smugglers Run (PS2 game)? In a specific Ganemode there was a care Package that drops down the map and you have to deliver it to a checkpoint. But the package gets transferred if enemy hits you. Don't found a video to unfortunately.
Don't think you need something like this. But better then ctf in my opinion.

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Re: Capture the Flag

Postby Chris_CE » Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:34 pm

This is certainly an interesting idea, but one we'd explore later in development.

The idea of incorporating tower defense/DOTA elements is actually really cool. Thing is, this doesn't fit into the lore of GRIP at all, at least in the story we've currently got.

BUT, previously being a big DOTA player, I do enjoy the thought of this. Have to revisit it later, is all ;)
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StickyBassline
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Re: Capture the Flag

Postby StickyBassline » Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:18 am

Chris_CE wrote:The idea of incorporating tower defense/DOTA elements is actually really cool. Thing is, this doesn't fit into the lore of GRIP at all, at least in the story we've currently got.

It could be like a spin off game-mode that isn't lore related, imagine if there was 2 teams, the typical outlaws that run the Grip cars and the other team were the government's special forces or something. Or even between an alien faction and the outlaws, it could be random :) The objective would be to drive into the enemy base and steal intel or possible damage a structure, but you only got a chance to hit this structure each time you manage to get into the enemy base. A possibility for the future ^^

The towers interests me a lot though. It could be a defense system meant to take out outlaw racers so there would be no casualties for the government forces. Imagine having it on normal race maps, like mortar towers that give a big red mark in the ground before it fires so you have time to evade the mortar shell explosion if you're quick to dodge! This would be pretty similar to Rollcage's lava maps with meteors, it fits the lore and would bring extra exitement :D
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Re: Capture the Flag

Postby potterman28wxcv » Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:19 pm

Chris_CE wrote:This is certainly an interesting idea, but one we'd explore later in development.

The idea of incorporating tower defense/DOTA elements is actually really cool. Thing is, this doesn't fit into the lore of GRIP at all, at least in the story we've currently got.

BUT, previously being a big DOTA player, I do enjoy the thought of this. Have to revisit it later, is all ;)

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Queadah
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Re: Capture the Flag

Postby Queadah » Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:32 pm

+1 A CTF idea is interesting if dev can later explore that down the road (pun intended)

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Re: Capture the Flag

Postby Chris_CE » Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:31 pm

Totally could work. I like it!

Just an idea to revisit later
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Re: Capture the Flag

Postby Cybruiser57Péter » Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:30 am

+1 for CTF and and leveling the opposing team base 8-)
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Re: Capture the Flag

Postby Cybruiser57Péter » Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:36 am

StickyBassline wrote:The towers interests me a lot though. It could be a defense system meant to take out outlaw racers so there would be no casualties for the government forces. Imagine having it on normal race maps, like mortar towers that give a big red mark in the ground before it fires so you have time to evade the mortar shell explosion if you're quick to dodge! This would be pretty similar to Rollcage's lava maps with meteors, it fits the lore and would bring extra exitement :D


This also be interesting in a convoy raid or a drone attack mod...

hmm...( :idea: )
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The pissed locals are head enough and strike back.
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Mik1
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Re: Capture the Flag

Postby Mik1 » Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:10 pm

One thing bothers me about this though, if the cars are unbreakable how would you defend against a capper? or is there gonna be destroyable vehicles like in deathmatch mode.

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Re: Capture the Flag

Postby StickyBassline » Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:31 pm

Mik1 wrote:One thing bothers me about this though, if the cars are unbreakable how would you defend against a capper? or is there gonna be destroyable vehicles like in deathmatch mode.

Yeah they should be destructible. And when you respawn you sort of do a burnout out of a garage at your base or something ;)
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Re: Capture the Flag

Postby Kami » Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:13 pm

Ah yeah good point. I was thinking that once someone with the flag would get shot, he would drop the flag and that would be it. I completely forgot that the car will still be there just derping without the flag and still be in the vicinity of the flag.

i think to solve this cars should get a three-strikes-you're-out kind of thing. getting hit by a missile up to 3 times. the third will reset you to your base. and maybe if you havent taken missile hits you will slowly regenerate those points.

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Re: Capture the Flag

Postby Demigan » Fri Feb 26, 2016 9:21 am

Here's how I would do a CTF mode (first a TL: DR list, explanation as to why and how below)

    If you move below a certain speed, the flag will be dropped after 0 or 3 seconds (for example). If you go slower you won't even be able to pick the flag up in the first place.
    Map design allows players to race, and the danger of going below the minimum speed arises depending on how difficult the road you pick back to your flag
    Map design should have a few central nodes where multiple roads come together to make it easier for teams to meet each other for fights, these places can be made more alluring with pickups.
    The flag is a powerup that takes one slot. It can be fired backwards or forwards to friendlies or to fire it across a shortcut without dropping the flag
    Cars are destroyable. This gives tank tiers as much use as faster smaller tiers.


For people who are only interested in features stop reading, please. I make too long posts anyway so I don't think many people are interested in what I originally wrote. But for those who want to know why exactly each feature is there, read below:

First off, defenders need to get it easier. With high-speed vehicles that can drive up the walls and ceiling and only a limited amount of weapons available at a time that may or may not be capable of hitting someone driving on the walls and ceiling it would be too easy to drive up to the flag and take off before anyone can stop you. And once you've got that head start it becomes tough to get the flag back. That's why lots of defender perks will be found in the idea's below:
Grip is about speed, so the flag is dropped the moment you move below a certain speed, or if that's too hard you drop the flag if you go below a certain speed for say 3 seconds. This makes it a bit easier to defend, as you could bump into enemy players or hit them enough so that they can't pick up the flag or drop the flag if they already have it. By forcing a minimum speed limit you can design maps where the player needs some skill to get over the map without ever slowing down too much, enforcing the race-culture that Grip should be based on. This also means that with or without weapons, any player can be dangerous, and any player getting hit might actually have a chance of holding on the the flag if they manage to keep their speed up. Another advantage is that you can get fights over the flag. The moment a flag is dropped you can prevent anyone else from picking it up by ramming them, forcing players to get some distance from the flag and gain speed before they can grab it again. The best player would manage to keep his enemy out of control long enough for him to gain speed and get the flag.
Maps need to be big enough that you can race around, with a few area's where several paths come together, to ensure any player racing off with the flag can be caught and stopped by the defending team. You can then add a few different paths, the one's at the edges of the map that would take you away from defenders would be the toughest places to drive on without losing speed, meaning you might stab yourself in the foot by taking that road.
The flag is a powerup. It takes a slot and can be fired forwards or backwards. This can be an important part of the high-skill meta, where firing the flag before you slow down can be a key element in taking some shortcuts or avoiding re-capture, with teamwork you can throw the flag around to friendly players who can carry it farther.
Cars are destroyable during CTF. This allows defenders and attackers to get rid of their opposition. It would be a bit lame if an attacker could just chill right next to the flag, wait for the defenders to have fired every weapon they have, then drive off with the flag. This also makes different Car tiers more valuable, where both the zippy little speedfreaks would be valuable as well as the tanks, and both would have their uses in attack and defense.

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potterman28wxcv
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Re: Capture the Flag

Postby potterman28wxcv » Fri Feb 26, 2016 9:01 pm

Demigan wrote:If you move below a certain speed, the flag will be dropped after 0 or 3 seconds (for example). If you go slower you won't even be able to pick the flag up in the first place.

This is just overkill in my opinion.
If the player stops, he is likely dead in the next few seconds anyway. No need to add a "drop the flag" thing in addition to that.

Besides, it kills possibilities like hiding on top of some building or something. Like if you know you're doomed, you could hide yourself on a very tricky spot, waiting for your mates to respawn and support you.

Demigan wrote:The flag is a powerup that takes one slot. It can be fired backwards or forwards to friendlies or to fire it across a shortcut without dropping the flag
Cars are destroyable. This gives tank tiers as much use as faster smaller tiers.

This idea has potential. You could have a penalty for holding the flag - like not being able to use *any* pick-up, or just being slowed down.
If you coordinate well, it could be (kind of) like football or rugby : you go as far as possible, and when you think you're about to lose the flag, you send the flag to a teammate, either behind or ahead of you.

It might be a little bit too OP though - the "ahead" range should not be too big, otherwise it would provide a too big advantage for the attackers.

PS: how to make a list

Code: Select all

[list]
[*]Element 1
[*]...
[/list]
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Re: Capture the Flag

Postby Queadah » Sat Feb 27, 2016 8:59 am

+1 for the flag as a powerup.
This penalizes the attacker with one less pick-up to use.

In addition to being droppable (holding the corresponding pickup key), I suggest the ability to "fire" the flag like regular missiles with the exact same targeting system to pass it to different buddies ;) (speed of flight to lower and low altitude perhaps so to allow interception).

Without being overkill, this would render CTF more dynamic (players having to mark one another, less frustration over the driving to reach the flag when passed through targeting) and give an advantage to attackers... that could be offset by the use of a mine or EMP pickup if any defender has a blast radius in the trajectory path.

Therefore, you give mines the strategic use of also blocking flag's flight path, more than just blowing your opponent up.
What do you guys think :)

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Re: Capture the Flag

Postby Queadah » Sat Feb 27, 2016 11:47 am

Got an idea to peg CTF to GRIP's lore!

Just make it GRIP illegal racers versus COP cars, with the former going after a piece of tech from the latter. Thus, you have a backstory of hit and run racers trying to steal a blueprint in the fortified positions of the authority (justifying the towers/defenses).

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Re: Capture the Flag

Postby Demigan » Sat Feb 27, 2016 4:06 pm

potterman28wxcv wrote:This is just overkill in my opinion.
If the player stops, he is likely dead in the next few seconds anyway. No need to add a "drop the flag" thing in addition to that.

Besides, it kills possibilities like hiding on top of some building or something. Like if you know you're doomed, you could hide yourself on a very tricky spot, waiting for your mates to respawn and support you.


I was thinking of maps that are almost completely race-tracks and that standing still was not much of an option anywhere at any time, especially when you have the flag. Of course if that's not the case it wouldn't be a good system. It was also a way to give players without weapon more power by being able to get the flag off the player by ramming them, which wouldn't do a lot I guess in other circumstances unless you are damaging yourself just as much.

potterman28wxcv wrote:This idea has potential. You could have a penalty for holding the flag - like not being able to use *any* pick-up, or just being slowed down.
If you coordinate well, it could be (kind of) like football or rugby : you go as far as possible, and when you think you're about to lose the flag, you send the flag to a teammate, either behind or ahead of you.

It might be a little bit too OP though - the "ahead" range should not be too big, otherwise it would provide a too big advantage for the attackers.


Being slowed down is a nice one I think. The biggest hurdle that I see is that the flag carrier could be almost unstoppable the moment he catches the flag, simply because overtaking someone who has the option for multiple different routes can be nigh impossible.

potterman28wxcv wrote:PS: how to make a list

Code: Select all

[list]
[*]Element 1
[*]...
[/list]


I'm not that good with forum-codes anymore, thanks :)


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